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    Project: "Devil's Toothpick"

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    Ivo
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    Project: "Devil's Toothpick"

    Post by Ivo on Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:39 am

    Hello Everyone,

    How about a small concept discussion...a sort of design proposition with a number of interesting design problems that we can tackle together and perhaps our discussion can serve as a base for some very interesting buildalongs.

    I present to you..

    Devil's Toothpick



    I was joking on another forum about a compact medieval-ish hybrid crossbow with a built in machete, red dot scope...blah blah blah...here it is, only instead of a machete I used a knife.

    The idea is simple yet not so simple...I purposely didn't go into detail and presented a sort of basic sketch...as you can see I didn't even give it any specific limb system as to not limit this discussion.

    All in all ... Love it, Hate it,...Spill it!



    PS: I'm not saying I invented the bicycle here and would love to hear if anyone knows of a similar weapon design.




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    Re: Project: "Devil's Toothpick"

    Post by Pavise on Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:09 pm

    Hi Ivo,

    Some time back I found a fantastic knife crossbow combination on the 'net that I believe was a project done by a very good custom knife maker. If I can find it again I'll post the URL.

    Meanwhile here's a very interesting related website too.
    http://thedarkblade.com/

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    Re: Project: "Devil's Toothpick"

    Post by Ivo on Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:08 pm

    Hey Pavise,

    I think you will have the most luck in finding that knife-crossbow out of all of us as you can probably retrace the queries you put in the search engine as this is a very sensitive thing when it comes to searching....good luck to you as I really want to see that one.

    About my crossbow design here...

    There are questions begging to be asked and areas to be addressed...

    Stock

    *Correcting ergonomics issues in this design(rough diagram at the bottom)

    Knife

    *Knife locking/unlocking mechanism
    *Shape of the butt of the handle...or even shape of the handle as whole.
    *Other places where a knife can be incorporated

    Arrow track

    *Fixation of arrow track to stock
    *Design capable of supporting a powerful prod - given it is a rather compact design with a rather short draw length(+/- 12" ...+/-11" power stroke)



    Optics

    * Front mounted optics - Pros and Cons of such scope placement....also...What kinds are suitable for this?


    I've throw in some measurements and corrected a few things as well...

    *also worth mentioning is that I didn't redraw the knife which is actually much deeper into the handle with it's overall length of around 9".

    This is all very sketchy and the drawing doesn't actually correspond with the measurements, so if you want to try it out on a piece of plywood or construction foam then only follow the measurements as the drawing is strictly a hint to the stock shape.



    PS: Pavise, I've seen to that site, nice stuff....I think it's closely related to our close neighbor Sinza (Exotic Automatic)

    PS2: Here is another version of this topic >>>Link




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    Re: Project: "Devil's Toothpick"

    Post by 8fingers on Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:28 pm

    For me I think the knife should be positioned between the hands so as to keep the balance / swing more uniform.
    Looks like removing knife also removes rear grip, so would removing knife 'disable ' crossbow? What about a scaleless knife ground so handle of knife and crossbow were the same? Grip mounted latch alows small leaf spring to push butt of knife up out of slot to be grasped, removed.
    Maybe twin skeleton knives inlet into both sides of fore end?
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    Re: Project: "Devil's Toothpick"

    Post by Ivo on Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:50 pm

    Hey 8fingers,

    I've had some critique in regards to crossbow being incomplete without the knife in the stock, so that kinda brought my spirit down a bit. But I do agree, it's kinda stupid since I broke/ruined so many blades in my life that this whole build would be a waste if knife was gone.

    I used to like the idea of a switchblade popping out from one of the ends of the stock and have been researching that department, but your refreshing suggestion of having two skeleton knives in the foregrip got me thinking simple and positive again.

    I got a few nice maple boards for the stock, modified a 150lb fiberglass prod for shorter yet more powerful draw. Sorry no pictures since it's just a couple of pieces of wood and a shortened prod for now, but I'll see to some sketches. Smile

    Thanks for rekindling my building spirit...I've been in the dumps for some time now trying to keep my business afloat. Perhaps this positive attitude will get things moving for me once again.

    Thanks

    Ivo




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    Re: Project: "Devil's Toothpick"

    Post by 8fingers on Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:07 am

    Could still have a skeleton knife in the handle if it was riding in a kerf on the top. A spring plunger could pop it up for access.

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    Re: Project: "Devil's Toothpick"

    Post by 8fingers on Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:22 am

    Saw a survival gun that had a trap in the but for 2 x20 gauge shot shells and some.22 shells. The butt plat was cut out to form an access port. and the port was closed with a gate that pivoted on the upper stock screw. A tab on the gate was matched with a gouged out finger hole. The gate was short enough it left a 1/2" or so of wood between it and the bottom butt plate screw.
    Another bullet trap was built into the comb / cheek piece of a stock, with a wooden cover. What if knife came forward, the pommel blended into the thumb notch of the 'pistol grip' area?
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    Re: Project: "Devil's Toothpick"

    Post by Ivo on Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:48 am

    8fingers wrote: Could still have a skeleton knife in the handle if it was riding in a kerf on the top. A spring plunger could pop it up for access.

    The last part really got me thinking...key words "popping out" opened a new view on things. Smile

    Here's what I've been up to...the first steps towards putting my thoughts on paper.





    Gotta love the younger brother, talk to him and you now have two kukri styled machetes in the design...why? because it's just so damn awesome.



    Two knives actually give a lot more freedom here:

    Single knife
    Double knife
    Interferes with arrow groove
    Keeps clear of the arrow groove - dipping into the two halves of the track
    Interferes with trigger mech space
    Allows for a top latch - dog leg style trigger (see Twinbow)
    ...and a few other benefits I've yet to find.

    Early stage of Development reached, now off to get those kukri dimensions from the knife guys. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy ...and drawing up that hop up choke...other than that I'm wasted here and going to bed (damn...4am )

    Ivo


    Last edited by Ivo on Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:08 pm; edited 1 time in total




    * *
    ~ "I don't have any special talents. I'm only passionately curious."
    * * *
    ~ "All Genius is Simple"
    * *

    8fingers
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    Did you see my tool collection?


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    Re: Project: "Devil's Toothpick"

    Post by 8fingers on Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:02 am

    Another thought, if you are going with twin kukris, what about making them like Chinese butterfly knives. It would be like one knife were cut down the center lengthwise, the handles would be on one side of each blade, each blade would have a single beveled edge. Would reduce the wood you need to remove from the stock. If it is legal, a knuckle bow /guard on the knives would give it a lever action look. Sme eastern swords were retained in their scabbards by a brass spring trough T shaped slot in the guard. The near the tip of the spring it was flattened so at rest the spring moves out and away from the handle and the flattened part of the spring is cross wise to the stem of the T slot. Grabbing the handle depresses the spring, aligning the flat spot with the top of the T slot, and allowing the sword to be drawn in an instant.

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    Re: Project: "Devil's Toothpick"

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