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    fastening a tie on prod

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    Todd the archer
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    fastening a tie on prod

    Post by Todd the archer on Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:07 pm

    I know how the prod is tied on.

    Was wondering was material was used and/or is used currently by contemperary builders.

    Thanks, Todd
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    Pavise
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    Re: fastening a tie on prod

    Post by Pavise on Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:49 pm

    Robin and I were recently discussing the use of rawhide for this very purpose and we have no doubt that it was used where suitable fibre was not readily available. To this day rawhide is used in the making of best wooden western saddle trees where the various fitted pinewood parts of the tree are covered with rawhide made from thick bull hide. These rawhide covering panels are then laced together to make for total coverage of the entire wooden tree foundation. The rawhide shrinks as it dries and this is what ultimately gives these traditional working cowboy saddles their extreme strength. Strength enough to resist pulling apart under the strains of a large animal resisting against a lariat fastened or dallied to the saddle horn. Long strands of rawhide can be cut from a hide by starting on the outside of an imaginary circle and then going round and round until the circle becomes too small to handle. The hair has to be slipped and removed from a fresh hide and this can be done with a slaked lime solution or simply rubbed off by the vigorous use of hand scrapers. All in all a lot of work for perhaps the need of very little rawhide. Dog chews made from rawhide are often unusable for such a purpose because they have been treated with substances that make them more attractive to both buyers and their dogs. Tandy Leather Co and other purveyors of leather often carry rawhide for crafts and tom-tom skins but the thickness needed to make substantial strings are often not available. However if a prod was bound on reasonably tight to begin with it would only get tighter as the rawhide bridle binding dried. Then a coat of varnish would make it impervious to moisture; always the bane of ye olde crossbowmen.

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    Geezer
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    binding prods

    Post by Geezer on Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:49 pm

    Todd the archer wrote:I know how the prod is tied on.

    Was wondering was material was used and/or is used currently by contemperary builders.

    Thanks, Todd
    Geezer here: I have used many materials for binding in prods. Most medieval prods seem to have been bound with hemp... bowstrings were commonly made of hemp as well. I have seen references to flax and silk used for both bowtrings and bow-bridles (the binding) For many years I used Barbour's shoe-makers flax, wound up to a suitable thickness on a macrame' rope-maker. Nowadays, I buy heavy hemp from one of several online companies. The last stuff I bought was rather hairy tow-hemp, hardly the best hemp, but affordable and strong enough for my needs. My next purchase will probably be from a new online company that promises Waxed hemp in suitable thickness. That will at least look better and should be a bit more weather-resistant.
    Years ago, I bound in a prod with wet rawhide. It was a bit more difficult to handle than hemp or flax, but it worked out quite well. It's certainly worth your giving it a try. Geezer.
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    Re: fastening a tie on prod

    Post by kiltedcelt on Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:03 pm

    Geezer,

    What's the source for the waxed hemp? The hemp I bought to bind my first crossbow prod on was a rather heavy but rough looking stuff. Something waxed and a bit cleaner looking would sure be nice.
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    waxed hemp

    Post by Geezer on Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:49 am

    Kilted Kelt: You asked about sources of hemp for binding in bows: I'm looking at two possible sources, both online. Search for Planet Natural hemp and Global Hemp. Both offer similar products... Hungarian hemp... get the thickest they have, which is generally 170-180 lb. test. Geezer
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    Re: fastening a tie on prod

    Post by jake-owa on Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:16 am

    To expand on this subject, does anyone have a link to a tutorial on fastening the prod? Specifically the method and knotting technique used. I have been trying to get a good solid tie but I have found that no matter how many times I bind the hemp twine with dacron thread it starts to get floppy after a few dozen shots. I have rebound it three times and I still need to refasten it again.
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    Re: fastening a tie on prod

    Post by Ivo on Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:18 pm



    Haha...I got your backman.

    The idea is to simply "wrap around" first half and then zig-zag the thread through in a figure "8" manner...this will allow you to pull the top and bottom portions together without loosening.



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    Geezer
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    Re: fastening a tie on prod

    Post by Geezer on Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:15 am

    Binding in a prod? Check Lightly's posts, as well as her flickr pages. She has a photo-guide of tying in the prod.
    First hint: Make the prod fit the socket very tightly, make sure it sits square, with good surface beneath. The "D" shaped passage for the cord will help a lot in getting the cord-skein laid down very tightly and carefully. You can't possibly pull too hard in the lashing- or cinching process. Geezer
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    Re: fastening a tie on prod

    Post by jake-owa on Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:38 am

    Thanks, will do. I have the prod-hole cut very close and it fits very tight but I placed some rubber sheeting in the bottom to try to reduce shock between the woods...maybe that isn't such a good plan.
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    Re: fastening a tie on prod

    Post by DARIVS ARCHITECTVS on Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:10 pm

    On my web page is an article which takes you step-by-step in building a medieval crossbow. If you skip down to the three paragraphs that describe how to bind the prod and stirrup, there are links to pictures to help you see how it's done. Note that the binding hole is a "D" shape, with the wood rounded over where the binding contacts the edge of the hole, so that the binding cords are not chafed and cut by the wood.

    DARIVS's Crossbow Page




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    jake-owa
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    Re: fastening a tie on prod

    Post by jake-owa on Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:41 pm

    Quick question, I don't have a binding block, is that a necessary part? I can see how it would help but I can't imagine that not having one is the source of my troubles.
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    Re: fastening a tie on prod

    Post by Lightly on Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:18 pm

    Hi Jake!
    A binding block is pretty necessary... Darius showed you some great photos of tying in, and I will include a link to my photo essay on tying in. This is not to say that this is the best or only way, but, it IS the way that New World Arbalest does it, and it keep very well. We very seldom have folks tell us the bindking has loosened. As a matter of fact, in the nearly three years I have been apprentice to Geezer, I have not yet seen any of ours returned for that.

    Best and good luck!

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    Re: fastening a tie on prod

    Post by jake-owa on Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:42 pm

    Thanks so much Lightly! I will devise a binding block and try to retie according to that. I still have a last few tweaks to the prod to do so this will give me that last chance.
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    tie on prod

    Post by barsod123 on Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:34 am

    Here is a great link for the binding with pictures, I used this link and was easy to follow, I couldn't find the woven dacron so I went with 100# PowerPro braided line 100% spectre fiber(equal to kevlar) fishing line for the binding. I did 4 loops on the floor = 8 strands I wood do 12 the next time. This is very strong non-stretching fiber.Also the use of a wood dowel after making a not helps the hands and getting the rope tight.


    link to tutorial of binding.
    http://digital.cs.usu.edu/~watson/artemisiaca/bindinghowto.htm

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    Re: fastening a tie on prod

    Post by pade kistler on Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:52 pm

    Thanks, now I can finish my projeto.Estava with doubts as to fix the blades ....

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