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    Information about building heavy composite bows for crossbows?

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    HeroSK
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    Information about building heavy composite bows for crossbows?

    Post by HeroSK on Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:20 am

    Hi all,

    Is there any good guide or article about how masters were building heavy composite prods? 

    Thanks in advance

    jaeger22
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    Re: Information about building heavy composite bows for crossbows?

    Post by jaeger22 on Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:37 am

    I assume you are talking about the old horn, wood, sinew bows? If so, I expect it is the same process as use in hand bows, just shorter and thicker. You can find information about at places on the web like this:
    http://www.primitiveways.com/pt-composite_bow.html


    Or maybe here:


    [url=http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/41106/Turkish-Horn-Bow-Project#.U6GG-xBA5q0]http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/41106/Turkish-Horn-Bow-Project#.U6GG-xBA5q0
    [/url]

    If you are talking about modern fiberglass/wood composite bows, the best information and supplies I know about is Bingham kits at: 

    http://www.binghamprojects.com/

    I have build a bunch of hand bows from their supplies. Great Folks.
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    kenh
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    Re: Information about building heavy composite bows for crossbows?

    Post by kenh on Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:01 am

    The ultimate online resource for information on wood-horn-sinew composite bows is www.ATARN.net.  That's the Asian Traditional Archery Research Network.  Paleoplanet also has some references, as jaeger22 mentions.  

    There are LOTS of sources and information on wood-glass bowbuilding, but virtually none specifically for crossbow prods.  I build wood-glass composite bows in the style of Asian bows, and have been meaning to make up at least a prototype crossbow prod, from which desired draw weights and lamination thicknesses can be calculated.

    Rizzar
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    Re: Information about building heavy composite bows for crossbows?

    Post by Rizzar on Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:06 am

    Hey there.

    Talking about medieval prods there are huge differences between composite handbows and composite crossbows.

    I had a link once, but I fear I am not able to provide it.
    (edit: found ! begin at site bottom working to top believe me its worth reading and well made)

    Generally a composite crossbow prod is built with little or better no wood part (the use of wood was partially even prohibited to prevent low quality and fraud).

    If there is wood, it is only for a basis to carry the horn core and of very little flexible amount.

    Traditionally the core consists of laminated horn strips, glued with hide glue (or similar) and built up in the front with high quality sinew covered with birch bark to protect from moisture.

    For german speakers there is literature of choice "Die Hornbogenarmbrust" by Holger Richter and as far as I remember Helmuth describes in "Die Armbrust" briefly(!) the composite prod.

    Concerning myself I thought about making one every once in a while but this is by far the most complicated prod you can make with a lot of time and material effort (good(!°) sinew/horn costs a lot of $€)

    Rizzar

    HeroSK
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    Re: Information about building heavy composite bows for crossbows?

    Post by HeroSK on Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:13 am

    Thanks so much for all replies. Jaeger22, the difference between hand held bow and crossbow prods is while building hand held bows a singe piece of horn used at inner side of bow arms. This is quite different for crossbows since large number of strips are used in a specialized structure. Thanks for links I am also interested in bow making I will certainly take a look. Smile

    Kenh, eventhough that site is great about archery, it has very limited information about crossbows especially in case of siege crossbows but thanks for suggestion. Smile

    Rizzar, you are just a little bit late since I got both the site and the book you suggesting from a friend on facebook. Very Happy Both sources are immensely rich in case of heavy prod building. Especially, Die Hornbogenarmbrust has exceptional images about inner structures of such heavy bows which is what I was looking for. Thanks again for suggestions and no, I have neither enough sources and knowledge about building such complex bows.

    My aim here to just understand a medieval text. Mardi bin Ali Al Tarsusi, 12th century writer, in his military manual, describes a giant crossbow with 3.4 to 4.8 meter long, one and a half span wide arms and while describing he mentions oak as base wood. He continues giving the information that wood and horn aligned and glued then bound just like ordinary bows but he omits how horn strips were placed on wood. That was what I am looking for and now I have some satisfying answers thanks to you. Smile

    I thought there could be some information about in the book, Spingalds and Great Crossbows by Jean Liebel. Could anyone having the book share if there is something interesting about such large crossbows ?

    Thanks in advance.
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    Geezer
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    Re: Information about building heavy composite bows for crossbows?

    Post by Geezer on Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:23 pm

    Jean Liebel's book on Springalds and Great Crossbows is worth having, but the fellow has some pretty squirrelly ideas as well.  Most of his practical research was done with scale-models.  While models can give you some insights, they can also lead you up some blind alleys.  There are differences in scale... things that won't work in full-size that go great in models, and some things he does that are just plain weird... his insistence on using bastard-strings to draw springalds, f'rinstance.  It's like he deliberately set out to make a simple task more difficult.  Ahh well, if you you can get the book at a reasonable price, it deserves a place in your crossbow library.  Geezer.

    HeroSK
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    Re: Information about building heavy composite bows for crossbows?

    Post by HeroSK on Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:49 pm

    Thanks Master Geezer, but I am more interested in great crossbows thus is there worthwhile information in that book about great crossbows? I will certainly try to get that book but it won't be easy.
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    Re: Information about building heavy composite bows for crossbows?

    Post by Geezer on Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:52 pm

    The good English translation of Liebel's book is published by the British Tower of London Armories.  A web-search oughta turn up one or more dealers who handle Armories publications.  Also, you might look at the book list at Manchester University museum... through their Simon Archery Collection.  They may have Liebel's book... they may also have Paterson's "Guide to the Crossbow", which is worth having.  Geezer.
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    Re: Information about building heavy composite bows for crossbows?

    Post by Geezer on Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:05 pm

    PS: concerning Liebel's Springalds book.  I did find one bookseller who listed the book at @ $80.  Personally, I wouldn't pay so much for Liebel... maybe half that. Now Richter's "Hornbogen".... I happily paid $80 for that and am glad-glad-glad.  It's a lovely work, full of useful stuff.  Geezer
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    Geezer
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    Re: Information about building heavy composite bows for crossbows?

    Post by Geezer on Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:08 pm

    Here's a Flash from Geezer.  If you want Liebel's book, I found a copy from Abebooks, for $44.  One Copy.  I have dealt with Abe Books before... they're square.

    HeroSK
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    Re: Information about building heavy composite bows for crossbows?

    Post by HeroSK on Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:45 pm

    Thanks for your suggestions and your effort. I will try to seek and catch a satisfying offer. Smile

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