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    Lock assembly with no machiening?

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    ora8i
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    Lock assembly with no machiening?

    Post by ora8i on Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:36 am

    Afternoon All.

    Im interested in building a lock for a modern type crossbow with a draw weight in the 75 - 100 lb range. 
    The lock needs to have a light, predictable and safe let off I also need to make it with the limited range of tools I have, a power drill, a disk cutter, a grind stone and the usual hand tools.

    What lock can you recommend and can you post a link to it?

    Could I fabricate a Han type mechanism?

    Thanks       Ora

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    Re: Lock assembly with no machiening?

    Post by c sitas on Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:54 am

    Hello Ora;You could  concievablly make the lock with the tools you mention   IF you know what your doing. As a first lock,  I would advise against it. Reason being it's  a VERY fussy lock it get perfect. If it's not on the money, it'll go off when it wants to. That is not a good trait for any lock. You could go with a peg lock ,or any of the wheel type locks .Get your feet wet some before you have to start swimming. I'm not trying to scare you, just want to see you succeed and not  get frustrated and quit. There is a mountain of information on the forum, and also many experts at what they do. Above all , be safe and have fun.

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    Re: Lock assembly with no machiening?

    Post by ora8i on Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:19 am

    That's a problem and sadly most triggers I seen need a good engineering standard

    Ora
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    Re: Lock assembly with no machiening?

    Post by kenh on Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:58 am

    As mentioned you *might* be able to make a Han lock with hand tools, but they can be finicky to tune.  Best bet IMHO for that low of draw weight is either

    1.  a classic roller nut lock with a Delrin(tm) or laminated wooden roller nut, reinforced where necessary with metal,  and a sear-linked trigger rather than a tickler

    or

    2.  even simpler, a Skane type pin-lock or notch-lock, again with a sear-linked trigger to push the pin.

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    Re: Lock assembly with no machiening?

    Post by ora8i on Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:37 pm

    I'm not a trigger tart but I do want a clean predicable  let off, I've mostly shot and owned quality air rifles so you can see what I'm used to.


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    Re: Lock assembly with no machiening?

    Post by kenh on Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:24 pm

    Yeah.... that kind of precision let-off isn't gonna happen with an action made with simple tools.

    Perhaps you could find a commercial crossbow action (crossbow being sold for parts on Ebay) and mount it on your own tiller.  Or buy a commercial crossbow instead of trying to make one.

    Or make friends with a machinist...

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    Re: Lock assembly with no machiening?

    Post by c sitas on Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:49 pm

    Ya guys; hard to replace a caddie with a ford. I'm a Vdub fan myself. You can tell my taste is almost nonexistant. My self , I find great satisfaction in the skane type lock, that I have made myself.I have made double set , hair trigger setups for black powder, but your talking a different world here. It doesn't take much to hold a hammer. 
    Even a toy bow could exceed 100# Someone better study leverage here. Ivo, impressed this on me as I hung around here. My advise ----research here. It's all here, I warranty it. If you want factory made , that's out there also.

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    Re: Lock assembly with no machiening?

    Post by rolynd on Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:42 am

    Hmmm, minimum machining, simple tools and low force on the trigger?

    What would you think about a toggle-link lock? It can be constructed simply from bar stock with mostly just drilling and very little machining, no sear faces that have to be matched and the force to release is also very low on the trigger? Its not a kind of lock that is commonly used, the only application i have seen  so far of a toggle link assembly in commercial crossbows was in the swiss twinbow...

    something like this:


    just  five pieces of bar stock with holes drilled and a trigger to push up on the central pivot point.

    The thing to watch out for in this kind of lock would be  to space the distance of the bars pivit points  such that in "spanned" position the central pivot is very slightly below centerline so its pushing a little downwards when force is applied. Thus the main draw force is directed backwards and only a little amount is pushing downwards making for an easy release. You can add a small magnet (blue) to help keeping it in position initially but once  force is applied its essentially self locking. If you need more  distance between the "claws" just use a pieceof thicker Stock or double up on the first horizontal linkage bar. Exact matching of the pivot holes could be easily achieved just by stacking up  the pieces and drilling them at once.
    If you want even more controlled release one could replace the  simple "push-up" trigger part with some king of spring driven "hammer" which has to be pre-cocked andis released by a trigger thus converting it into a set-trigger. 
    mechanically the toggle link  makes for a very strong lock and because of the force distribution only little force is requird to release it. 

    Maybe there are better options but that is what I came up with when  looking at the OPs initial requirements.

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    Re: Lock assembly with no machiening?

    Post by ora8i on Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:08 am

    Hi.

    Please could you link to a diagram of  a Sear Linked Trigger, I'm not sure what you mean.


    Thanks.      Aamcle

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    Re: Lock assembly with no machiening?

    Post by rolynd on Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:14 am

    Hm,Picture is not showing? Crying or Very sad I can see it fine.
    try this link
    http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif

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    Re: Lock assembly with no machiening?

    Post by ora8i on Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:44 am

    Thanks that looks to be a real contender. 


    Ora

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    Re: Lock assembly with no machiening?

    Post by c sitas on Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:24 pm

    Ora; A tip here, check out different sizes of roller chain links. Can't come any more ready made than them. Good luck
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    Re: Lock assembly with no machiening?

    Post by kenh on Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:01 pm

    C.sitas --- ooh...  that's an interesting thought.  Mini crossbow with bicycle chain links....

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    Re: Lock assembly with no machiening?

    Post by c sitas on Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:28 pm

    Hey Ken, I 've been shooting one for over thirty years in comp.archery. Called a fletchmatic. Made by Fletcher archery co. AND they are still in business. That'll give you an idea of how long those links last. Using the trigger set up that was shown here it would be a snap. You could easily set the creep on the trigger also. That system is rock solid,no worries about miss fires as long as you don't touch the trigger. Could make a safety easily also.I'd be almost willing to bet I could make a working model in one evening,just really simple.

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    Re: Lock assembly with no machiening?

    Post by jeep on Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:44 am

    Toggle-link lock is perfect: can be realized with common hand tool. I don’t understand why is not more widely used for crossbow. But for the actual case, is a waste, looking the power you try to reach. This lock is perfect for very high power crossbow(300 and more) . I share Kenh opinion: for your crossbow pin- lock, notch lock, wooden roller nut lock would be enough and the easiest to realize or if you are not really wheeling to invest yourself in design and engineering you should by one directly.
    Toggle-link lock look easy to do, right, but then you have to balance it with your crossbow and the winding device end then is a task! The lock is the easiest part of the job but is very satisfactory
    I have worked on this lock for the OSS crossbow . This work’s pictures have desapaired from the forum don’t know why? So here some picture (old and not very good) about the lock.
    1 ready too shoot


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    Re: Lock assembly with no machiening?

    Post by jeep on Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:54 am

    After release.


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    Re: Lock assembly with no machiening?

    Post by jeep on Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:56 am


    jeep
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    Re: Lock assembly with no machiening?

    Post by jeep on Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:06 am

    ready to shoot

    ora8i
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    Re: Lock assembly with no machiening?

    Post by ora8i on Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:09 am

    Jeep, if you have any more pictures of the mechanism would you please post them, I'd really like to see more.

    I'll make a simple pin lock when I get to build.


    Thanks.     Ora

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    Re: Lock assembly with no machiening?

    Post by rolynd on Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:09 am

    Thanks for uploading the pictures again Jeep! I forgot you used it in the Big Joe crossbow.
    Its nice to see the toggle link lock, in whatever iteration used, has some advocates even if it would be a little overkill for the OPs usage. I think crossbow manufacturers are mainly traditionalists and it would take something to make them stray from well trodden paths.... The twinbows manufacturer was a new upstart company and had obviously no qualms about trying something new....

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    Re: Lock assembly with no machiening?

    Post by jeep on Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:30 pm

    here the declassified drawing of the BJ5 Toggle-link-lock from the NARA . Very bad qualitiy(blue print picture) but enoughf if you look cherfully.


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    Re: Lock assembly with no machiening?

    Post by ora8i on Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:12 am

    Jeep, that's great but I was your build I wanted to see  Very Happy


    Atb.        Ora

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