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    Why do people hate crossbows?

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    Onager Lovac
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    Why do people hate crossbows?

    Post by Onager Lovac on Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:31 pm

    Around here where i live, im pretty much the only crossbow guy, when im out on the bow range and bring it up i get this stare from people like "You should not talk about that", and its not limited to the range, whenever i talk about crossbows everyone kinda discretly try to change the subject. I have a lot of theories about this but im not sure of any, has this ever happen to any of you?, what do you guys think?.

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    Re: Why do people hate crossbows?

    Post by phuphuphnik on Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:08 pm

    I think some people consider them cheating. At the range the only ones I'll allow to get away with that sentiment is the traditional folks. The trigger glove wearing compound shooters have little room to talk.  The crossbow also has a reputation as a nefarious weapon. Weather or not that has been earned is another discussion. It is seen as the tool of the merc, and the assassin. Those of us who study the history of these weapons know better, but movies, video games, and pop culture has cast that light.
    In the same vein, the longbow has a noble and honourable light cast upon it. What do you normally have at the range? I noticed people's attitudes change a bit when I pull out a hand made medieval bow, opposed to a modern machine made one. 

    (the following is a joke, and is meant only to tease. )

    There is another option, though. If you are like me, then perhaps you just won't shut up about crossbows and they are tired of hearing it? My wife at least concedes that it is better than talking about the Model T all the time.

    c sitas
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    Re: Why do people hate crossbows?

    Post by c sitas on Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:29 pm

    You know  Onager; I just came from Archery talk--crossbow forum  and some guy was bragging about making 119 yard kill. Stuff like that doesn't set well with most people. I think ,here we should  forget about the modern high speed bs and stick with our medieval bows.There always will be the rub between trad archery and compound , same thing with the crossbows.Also , this is just my own point of view,  I come here because of the piece of mind. I've been kicked around a lot in my life time about my archery thoughts and doings.Here, nobody seems to give a darn , run what you brung. Money drives most of the world but, not so much here. We don't spend close to 2000 green dollars just to go shoot nor do we prefer pink strings.Getting back to your question,I think most clubs were built on traditions long ago and they just don't want to change. Besides it takes more target to stop the crossbow . There fore ,more expense, with no gain. That's enough, this is a sore subject and I've probbaly said to much all ready.I'll just take my bat and stay home.

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    Re: Why do people hate crossbows?

    Post by Onager Lovac on Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:05 pm

    we crossbow dudes think alike, i always wondered why people shoot compounds, in my mind it makes no sense,well, at least for newer ones, i have nothing against compounds they are a good idea,but why shoot one when you could shoot a crossbow which is a mechanical device also, and gives you a better chance because there is less movement and is simpler in the case of recurves and straight prod xbows,  or a traditional bow which makes you work, requires constant practice and skill?. Old compound bows are fine, they are just bows with a mechanical advantage and that is all, its a good idea, but newer compounds lock into place like a crossbow, have triggers like crossbows, sights like crossbows, but you shoot them vertically and have to be drawn before shooting which makes for the animal easier to see you, the advantage you have with the compound bow is that you can say you hunt with a bow, and there is a snob appeal to that i guess, and like phuphuphnik said every time i see crossbows in the movies ore tv, they are only used by the bad guys, so theres that.

    c sitas
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    Re: Why do people hate crossbows?

    Post by c sitas on Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:41 pm

    Onager; One thing as far as your hate thing goes is , The archery seasons were fought for and held onto first, by archers.-To have someone come and force their way in by a new law is not well received. Where I live ,I'm in a unique deal. My club is mostly older guys. We shoot a summer league.Seven different clubs. We even let crossbows shoot. I'm a competition archer. I shoot side by side against these hunting style crossbows with their scopes. Funny thing I haven't even had one come withing 20 points of beating me. Off hand is a game in my favor. We shoot from 0 to 70 yards, animals and spots. I've not shot against a full bore target crossbow, these guys are hunter styles.Target crossbows are limited to 90 lbs. A person that has mastered the hold with one is something to behold.To say they could pick your eye out at 50 yards would be an under statement.

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    Re: Why do people hate crossbows?

    Post by OrienM on Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:13 am

    Yeah, some people apparently really dislike, and/or are terrified by crossbows. Interesting to compare to the primitive longbows I used to shoot, which could also easily shoot right through somebody, but which no one was ever afraid of that I can recall. I've definitely gotten some funny remarks about my crossbow, including "that looks evil", "scary", and so on.

    Even my own dad admits disliking crossbows ???..."they look dangerous", he says.

    I honestly can't figure out what it is about the crossbow...people have exaggerated ideas about the power of the weapon, for one thing. Generally people are surprised when I state my 160# crossbow has similar cast and range to about a 50# hand bow, and are expecting some crazy, pierce-armor-at-200-yds type of performance.

    As far as I'm concerned, the scariest thing about crossbows is the precision with which they can be shot...yikes. woot2

    c sitas
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    Re: Why do people hate crossbows?

    Post by c sitas on Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:51 am

    The scariest thing for me is I know they are thumb lickers.When a person shoots around me ,I'm always watching. Guns are no different. I lost a young  cousin to a lowly 22 caliber short. The most disregarded bullet made. Near me this year someone killed himself letting one down out of a tree with a rope. Strung and loaded,now how dumb is that?I've also seen guys carry them around their shoulder, cocked, no arrow. They claim it's safe,and it might be ,till goes OFF.Maybe your head would be bouncing on the ground.

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    Re: Why do people hate crossbows?

    Post by twedzel on Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:29 am

    These are the main reasons I have heard archers hate on for crossbows. Most of them are related to hunting, which probably carries its way through to target archers as well. It is North American centric where the crossbow is mostly a seen as a hunting tool (my notes in parenthesis).
    1. They are too easy to use (easier for beginners but so are compounds with sights).
    2. They are too much like rifles in power (misunderstanding of high draw weight in relation to draw length).
    3. They are too much like rifles in use (Okay you got me there, but this still doesn't extend their range, I have read one archer who refers them to X-guns not crossbows... how inane).
    4. They use triggers like a gun (so are compounds).
    5. You don't need to make movement drawing them on game (weird criticism but sure, no you don't... but alternatively you have to have your bow "loaded" to be useful when game walks by).
    6. They are the tools of poachers (and you've pulled this particular piece of info from which orifice?).
    7. They are responsible for wounding more animals (see number 5, data actually shows equivalent wounding rates).
    8. They will invade and chip away at our archery only seasons until they no longer exist and or they will decimate game numbers (pure bull protectionism. I live in a place where crossbows are allowed in archery seasons as archery tackle... the seasons are doing just fine and game harvest levels are not going through the roof as the bow hunters feared).

    I think mostly it is rooted in protectionism and misunderstanding. The protectionism is almost unavoidable in such established traditions, which leads to some archers being very judgmental. They look for any excuse no matter how minor to exclude. Excluding sucks!

    c sitas
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    Re: Why do people hate crossbows?

    Post by c sitas on Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:21 pm

    tewdzel;Hello;The other day I was on" crossbow talk". I guy came on there bragging about making a 119yd. shot on a deer . He claims he got it.That news  wasn't even  liked by the body.I agree also , ya the arrow can get there ,but how many millaseconds does it take for that animal to move 3 feet at that distance.It's that kind of irresonisble people  that make things tough for every body.A shot at that distance would be very chancey for an awful lot of rifle hunters.The chance of just wounding are high. The worst part about this , it seems that all the wrong people will see that wounded animal. As sports people ,I don't think we should be wasting time cussing each other. The antis are getting their way easier when we waste our time bickering amongst ourselves.

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    Re: Why do people hate crossbows?

    Post by Random_shotz on Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:57 pm

    When I lived in NY (admittedly, some years ago) crossbow hunting was not permitted during bow season. I don't recall if it was put into rifle season or muzzleloader season. However, any bow with a mechanical release was also also put into the same season. Seems fair to me, and it obviates the jealous complaints of "traditional" archers who use computer designed cams, high-tech composites, laser range-finders, micro-adjustable bow sights with LED illumination and a bubble level, and who think having a mechanical release gives a hunter an unfair advantage.

    I am hacked off that I can't find any place to practice locally. It isn't legal to use it outdoors in the county (Lexington, KY) even on private land. Public ranges around here ban crossbows as does the only indoor archery range near me. I walked in with the bow I recently got from Iolo/NWA and was told it was not allowed because a crossbow is too powerful and might tear the wall up if I miss. I could hardly claim that I wasn't going to miss, having never shot the thing yet. I repeatedly pointed out that this was a 100 pound target bow which is marginal/underpowered for hunting and not nearly as powerful as the compound bows routinely used at the range, but he could not get past the crossbow idea. Being a noob, I did not realize until later that the "100 pound" designation was what was putting him off. It would have been impressive with a 32" arrow but if he knew his art, he would have known from my stubby little 16" bolts that the projectile energy would be much less. Still, in the end it's his shop and no point in arguing, but I'm still cheesed off.

    I'm kicking around the idea of making a Roman Scorpion. I am a machinist and have pretty fair mechanical skills, I've been accumulating books and may have located a workspace I can use. I'll show that sucker how to tear up a wall ...

    chaz
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    Re: Why do people hate crossbows?

    Post by chaz on Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:46 pm

    Why do people hate crossbows ? Hardly a question worth pondering ............... hopefully they are not on this forum.

    Chaz

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    Re: Why do people hate crossbows?

    Post by phuphuphnik on Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:58 pm

    I respectfully disagree with you Chaz, although I agree with the sentiment 100%. There are several ranges that ban crossbows. If we want to get these rules changed we should be able to explain why they are flawed. Knowing why people don't like the things is a good first step.

    c sitas
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    Re: Why do people hate crossbows?

    Post by c sitas on Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:16 am

    Phuphuphnik; I agree with you .I can't put my finger on anything in particular. If you want  to get a start of something , just check out any of the other crossbow forums.There are at least two .That's all I'm going to say.I have spent considerable time on them ,just reading and watching what is being said.

    OrienM
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    Re: Why do people hate crossbows?

    Post by OrienM on Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:08 am

    The first time I actually noticed crossbow hate was on a self-bowery forum; somebody posted a crossbow they'd made, and a few guys verbally blasted them for posting "non-archery" material. It turned into a bit of a mess, with arguing about hunting seasons and all tongue .

    Personally I just thought the guy's crossbow was pretty cool Very Happy. To me, if it throws arrows, then it's archery...crossbows are no less archery then compound bows, IMHO.

    A query: I've been avoiding shooting at the local ranges because my big, blunt medieval-style bolts tear up foam targets pretty badly; can anybody recommend me where to buy field points (or similar) that will fit a 1/2" shaft? I could probably forge some bodkins, I suppose, but it's a lot of extra work to do so.

    c sitas
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    Re: Why do people hate crossbows?

    Post by c sitas on Thu Dec 24, 2015 9:55 am

    Are you able to use the standard archery screw in tips? They are 8/32 size. They can be purchased almost any where. Also they don't really have to match the outside of the perfectly. I shoot  some of my arrows with smaller dia. tips . I know it don't bother any worse. I shoot the foam 3D also.The more I think here ,I think the largest normal field tip  size is 11/32 outside dia. with 8/32 thread.

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    Re: Why do people hate crossbows?

    Post by OrienM on Thu Dec 24, 2015 1:21 pm

    I'm not able to use screw-ins; these are 1/2" dia. ash wood and need glue-in heads of some type. I've tried using regular 11/32 field points and tapering or necking down the ends of the bolts, but they tend to break off just behind the head too often for comfort. I may go with a set of these: http://www.primitiveways.com/field_points_for_atlatl.html ...if I can't find a commercial solution.

    To avoid derailing this thread perhaps I'll get a thread started on foam-target-friendly, large-diameter bolt points specifically; it would be great to find some, and perhaps others would benefit as well. I definitely feel like ripping targets all up is a legitimate gripe, and don't want to encourage crossbow-hate in people I shoot with.

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    Re: Why do people hate crossbows?

    Post by c sitas on Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:52 pm

    i shoot the Reinhart targets at the club. They have league shoots once a week for almost 3 months, with about 25 shooters on average. Thats a lot of punishment for a season. I can't see you shooting good enough to rip up a target. By that ,I'm talking about a 1.5" group steady say at 20yds and in.It doesn't make sense. As long as you had some kind of point on the front end, and not a broadhead. Why are your arrows "ripping" the targets. Reason I mentioned the broadhead is because we'll get a couple of know nothings a years that put broadheads in the targets. If you hit one with a twenty dollar carbon arrow , you can kiss your arrow good bye. It'll put your point into your shaft about 2", not cool. That's my only beef.

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