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    where or how to ask a question

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    WINCAR
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    where or how to ask a question

    Post by WINCAR on Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:50 am

    searched everywhere --
    I gave up finding where one posts a thread or asks a question

    someone surely knows --or newbies excluded ?
    help ?
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    kenh
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    Re: where or how to ask a question

    Post by kenh on Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:58 pm

    Generally you ask your question in the Forum in which you are interested -- Traditional, Modern, LARP,  etc.   We never exclude newbies.

    Ask away and we'll answer.   What are you interested in?  Traditional crossbows with wooden tillers and wood or steel or well disguised fiberglass prods and simple actions?  Modern 'glass prod and plastic/metal tillers with complex actions?  Something else?

    What is/are your question(s)?

    FWIW we are mostly NOT into fantasy-based x-bows.

    WINCAR
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    where to ask a question-exact place?

    Post by WINCAR on Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:35 pm

    Thankyou so much Kenh--!
    finally --a long awaited reply --

    ok --hunted here in Central & Southern Africa --48 years with
    all types of rifles & long bows & compounds-
    Mostly xbows --some commercial made dodgy crossbows
     many of my own construction --via Payne Galwey &  various
    books /blueprints etc --
    Finally --made a "hybrid in 1978 --
    dural prod --hunted -scrapped -too weak --fibreglass 200 lb-proved the
    most reliable in thickets --all DIY --from then on --

    ok --that's history--nuff said --

    I was recently told -a strange medieaval idea ----(thought it was a joke ---impossible!
    that a HEMP  string ---held the rolling nut --or went through
    the rolling nut AXIS PIN  ---instead of a 3/16 or 1/4 robust
    case hardened steel pin!!
    This I woul like to understand fully/more clearly
    (how does hemp cord ---hold the entire trigger release assay
    in place ---when say a 120 lb prod --string -pulls in one direction
    and the sear holds the nut --in the opposite direction -?

    how on earth does the rolling nut --not fly upwards --out of the
    stock --without a steel axle retaining /pivot pin ??
    my47 years of building a huge variety of horn /brass /ivory /ebony
    rolling  nut /cantilever /black powder flintlock trigger mechanisms -
    -I have never heard of --"hemp " cord  holdin a rotating nut in place -?? mind boggling -!
    but a I have never seen any such illustration /diagram -
    I cannot understand how this would work -?
    maybe old fashioned --but would really appreciate some historical
    medieaval clarity -
    many thanks --
    WINCAR
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    kenh
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    Re: where or how to ask a question

    Post by kenh on Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:08 am

    Hi WINCAR;

    Yep it did happen and still does happen that a roller nut can be held in  place with a few wraps of cord.  Here's one discussion that show both old and new uses of the same technique.  The thread is about bolt clips, but scroll down through things...  In Olde Dayes the cord might also have been flax, but it is much weaker than hemp, or braided silk.  Probably not rawhide or sinew which would be too affected by moisture and drying.

    http://thearbalistguild.forumotion.com/t249-what-sort-of-metal-for-bolt-clip

    The nut fits relatively tightly in its socket.  It can't fly up because the socket was most often more than half a circle.  Side plates or sidewalls of the socket keep it from going sideways.  The bowstring pulls the nut forward from above the centerline, not upward.  The trigger spur keeps the nut from turning backward, not up or down when the action is cocked.  All the cord/pin really does provide a reasonably stationary center for rotation.  If the socket really is only half a circle, there could be some upward motion of the roller nut.  But the vast majority of energy applied to the nut by the string is far above the center of the nut and directed forwards and down rather than upwards.  A relatively small amount of the energy applied to the nut is applied upward.

    Mind you, that pivot cord probably needed replacing pretty frequently, even when waxed or oiled -- there would be a lot of frictional wear involved...

    WINCAR
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    Re: where or how to ask a question

    Post by WINCAR on Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:35 am

    Thankyou so much Kenh---appreciate the explanation-----now I get it !
    appears my idea that it had to be a 2/3 "cup " housing --to stop the nut popping up -
    was correct ---but must have required lubrication /tallow of some sort --

    But now I see why a hemp or silk cord held the roller nut /housing --onto the stock --

    most grateful --
    I stand corrected!
    Tried to download Payne Gallwey,s book --but internet here in the African backwoods -
    takes forever---

    One Question --my new 280 lb DIY  recurve spring steelprod--
    forgot how many strands of Dacron B50  to use on the-string jig?--

    ( cannot remember that old formula -)
    many thanks again ---
    Wincar
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    Geezer
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    Re: where or how to ask a question

    Post by Geezer on Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:50 am

    Wincar: note Payne Gallwey's plan can be improved in two ways... well three ways, if nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.  First, PG says to sink the nut by about 3/5.  I recommend 2/3... so the nut is riding just a bit deeper.  3/5 is okay if you're using PG's steel socket, but if you're using a wooden self-socket or a bone reinforced one, it helps to have a bit more 'meat' around the roller. Second, don't place the sear-pin for the trigger precisely in the bottom of the nut as shown.  Move it back a few degrees. That helps keep the nut from trying to rise out of the trigger.  Third, PG shows a zig-zag trigger in an angled mortise.  You don't need that.. in fact, I'm not sure you could get that trigger into the mortise.  The trigger will work well as a square angled Z.  Straight back from the sear-keyway, to the pivot pin, straight down from just behind the pivot, out the bottom, and straight back, about an inch below the stock.  Your trigger mortise can be quite long for fitting.  If you think it unsightly, just fill in the extra with a well fitted/glued block.  You can do this, and welcome aboard.  Geezer.
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    Re: where or how to ask a question

    Post by Geezer on Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:53 am

    And Kenh is quite right.  The 'nussfaden' cord only serves to keep the roller from falling out or jumping out on release.  A medieval bow will actually lock and shoot quite well without any pin at all, though there's a possibility the roller may hop out on release, or just fall out when you're strolling around.  In fact, my tied in rollers (normally I use Artificial Sinew) don't need attention to the cord for thousands of shots.
    Geezer.
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    kenh
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    Re: where or how to ask a question

    Post by kenh on Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:56 am

    Well, I usually have my strings made for me.  "Hey Charlie!  I need a 28" string for a 300# crossbow."  But with a bit of research... 

    A single strand of B50 has a breaking strength of about 40#.  
    Bowstrings want to be at least 4x stronger than the draw weight of the bow 
    Your 280# prod x4 is 1200lbs for a safe round number.  
    That means you'd want 30 strands of B50 in a string.

    WINCAR
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    Re: where or how to ask a question

    Post by WINCAR on Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:51 pm

    Wow ---thanks for the trigger update --Geezer ---so many ideas & variations -
    (been living in primordial Zambia too long ---great to have such technical updates!

    --AND  thankyou Kenh ----now I can wind my delayed Dacron string ---30 turns looks good
    --just robbed a beehive up an enormous tree for--extra bees wax --my left eye is swollen closed
    ---but those stings are worth the genuine bit of wax ---
    will have more questions on bolts & broadhead/stock design later( diy bushcraft)--

    Appreciate all the sage advice --
    see ya later---will post fotos of progress on this African hybrid xbow
    Wincar


    Last edited by WINCAR on Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:56 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add details)

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