Hi there,

I wanted to order a steel crossbow prod from Alchem Icorporated (a website that is familiar on this forum), but I am not getting a response what so ever. Does somone have experience in ordering a prod on that website? Do i have to pay first? I already sended an order form.

I hope someone can help me because i'd really like to finish my crossbow.

Greetings

Hello Pikvogel, Geezer here. You have hit on Alchem's besetting problem... irregular availability of stock. They have an excellent selection of prods of various weights and a useful supply of roller nuts, bow-irons, etc. but deliveries can be a problem.
My second source for prods is Darkwood Armory. They're primarily a manufacturer or replica swords, but they do offer some crossbow parts. Darkwood makes a lightweight aluminum-alloy prod, suitable for backyard recreational bows, and a substantial steel prod of about 155 lb. draw (28 inches long, 3.5 inch brace, 8 inch draw from brace) Darkwood's prods are slightly more expensive than Alchem's, but they're a bit more professional in meeting obligations. So IF their prod will meet your needs, you might give them a try. Just do a search under Darkwood Armory, swords. You'll find them right away. And good hunting. Geezer.

If somone on this forum knows more stores were you can but steel prods, please put a link up:D


PS. WOW, the shipping prices for the netherlands at darkwood armory are absolutely outragious!
55$ for a 70$ prod. I hope you guys know more websites with steel prods...

Hey Pikvogel: Geezer here. I'm afraid Darkwood's quoted shipping cost for a steel prod from Mississippi, USA, to Holland is in line with the sort of costs I incur from shipping across the Big Pond. Figure the package at 3 pounds, in a box 4X4X30 inches. If you want it by air, it's going to be somewhere in that range. US post might be a bit cheaper, but most of us artisans have found Fedex and UPS more reliable. There is a manufacturer of steel prods in Belgium. Maybe one of you guys out there has an address for them? Geezer/New World Arbalest... struggling with the same high shipping costs.

Pikvogel wrote:If somone on this forum knows more stores were you can but steel prods, please put a link up:D


PS. WOW, the shipping prices for the netherlands at darkwood armory are absolutely outragious!
55$ for a 70$ prod. I hope you guys know more websites with steel prods...

I think this outfit is in Belgium DIGITARC. Nice looking prods...

Tinker

Geezer here: Digitarc- That's the prod-maker I was thinking of. Some 3 years ago, a customer provided a digitarc 'pin' type crossbow prod for the crossbow he wanted. The thing was a magnificent beast... we ended up drawing about 350 lb and it looked PERFECT for the 16th century German bow. I wasn't all that impressed with velocity. I think you'd get a quicker cast and flatter trajectory with a 175 lb. Alchem, but the looks were dead-on, and I think you could have got a fair cast throwing pianos, washing-machines, old toilets, or whatever miscellaneous household appliances you happen to have lying around the shop. It was a stout beast. Anyhow, based on the one sample I have handled, the Digitarc pin-type prods are worth the price you pay, but indeed our European brethren will still pay more for a Digitarc medieval prod, even with the difference in shipping. Geezer.

Pikvogel,

Have you considered making one yourself?

Jim at Alchem was cool enough to give the dimensions of his prods right on the order page. >>>LINK ...and a car leaf-spring is very easy to find and will cost almost nothing if not nothing(car dumps are full of these things).

A good resource dealing with tillering steel leaf-springs into prods, is this page. >>>LINK

It was put together by a member going by the name basileus. Give this option a thought.

Ivo

Ivo wrote:Pikvogel,

Have you considered making one yourself?

Jim at Alchem was cool enough to give the dimensions of his prods right on the order page. >>>LINK ...and a car leaf-spring is very easy to find and will cost almost nothing if not nothing(car dumps are full of these things).

Making one is probably easiest and as Ivo said, used leaf springs cost next to nothing. I suggest not using the dimensions of Alchem's prods, as their center parts are overworked and tips are too heavy. Rather, select whatever width (at the center) and whatever length you want and then width taper towards the tips as much as possible. For example, reduce the width from 45mm to 6mm for a 6mm thick prod.
This gives the best possible dry-fire speed without going into thickness tapering, which is much trickier to do with steel prods than with wooden bows. You can estimate the safe draw length of the prod with help from a CAD program and the ODS spreadsheet available here. The spreadsheet is not very intuitive, but has saved from doing a ton of slow manual calculations.

A good resource dealing with tillering steel leaf-springs into prods, is this page. >>>LINK

Ivo: thanks for linking to my page . Good to see people are reading it and benefiting from it!

It was put together by a member going by the name basileus. Give this option a thought.
Ivo

Pikvogel: if you have any questions about making a steel prod, don't hesitate to ask. I'll do my best to help.

Thanks Guys!
This wil make it much easier for me!

Be aware that it's possible to make the ends of your steel prod too narrow for practical reasons. Some years ago when my friends at Darkwood Armory were experimenting with steel prods, they made some that were so narrow out near the tips that the prods torqued on release. This made them shed their bowstrings in about three shots. So remember that the outer end, whatever it's relation to the width at the center, must be broad enough to avoid twisting.
Of course medieval prods were mostly narrowed in thickness rather than in width, but that requires a lot more expertise. Any fool can draw a line and cut along it for a prod that is tapered in width rather than thickenss. Hooray for us fools, we still get to make cool projects anyway.
Geezer.

Geezer wrote: Be aware that it's possible to make the ends of your steel prod too narrow for practical reasons.Some years ago when my friends at Darkwood Armory were experimenting with steel prods, they made some that were so narrow out near the tips that the prods torqued on release. This made them shed their bowstrings in about three shots. So remember that the outer end, whatever it's relation to the width at the center, must be broad enough to avoid twisting.

So far I've had no issues if the cross-section of the extreme tips has been a square, e.g. 5x5mm, 6x6mm or 8x8mm. Going beyond that (=making the tip narrower than it's thick) is probably a bad idea and would cause the mentioned torquing. I doubt that the relation between width at tips and width at the center matters much, e.g. whether width taper is 60->6mm or 40->6mm. Of course, as the center is widened, the tips become weaker in relation, which may cause other problems.

One more word of warning... if you're working on really narrow tips from thin spring steel, make sure the cuts you make are absolutely straight all the way. Even small local variations in tip width may cause the tips to bend if you manage somehow to dry-fire the bow with a too strong bowstring (been there).

Of course medieval prods were mostly narrowed in thickness rather than in width, but that requires a lot more expertise. Any fool can draw a line and cut along it for a prod that is tapered in width rather than thickenss. Hooray for us fools, we still get to make cool projects anyway.
Geezer.

Yep. The problem with thickness tapering is that it shouldn't be straight but elliptical (roughly x^3 curve). So you should taper progressively more as you move towards the tips. Of course, if there's also width tapering, this curve will be flatter, so a straight taper would be good enough. More details on this issue here.

I've made a few plans on how to grind and/or forge the thickness taper to a steel prod... I probably have to execute these plans once I start making prods that are ridicuously thick at the middle (e.g. 25mm / 1") and thickness taper alone does not cut it .

Hi Pikvogel: Try this guy in England. Google Todsstuff.co.uk. He makes his own prods thats what I understand. Boy and the pull weight massive. Also with his massive pull weights he also offers (makes) all different spanning equipment. Just my 2 cents. Mike

Morning Guys & gals,
A couple of things. Firstly I have been in contact with Alchem and they advise that they have hired a guy last week to do nothing but prods. They expect to despatch my prod order in 3 weeks.
Maybe this is common knowledge amongst you all but thought I would pass it on, given some previous posts about the delivery delays. It must mean that business is good for them.

Secondly I must apologize for not introducing myself properly when I first started asking questions a couple of weeks ago; too eager to get on with it I suppose. Anyway, I am down in New Zealand. I love making things generally and knives, antique reproduction blades etc (especially Scottish) in particular. The more complicated and intricate the better. I have wide experience in wood working and metal working at the home DIY level and consider myself pretty competent to tackle most projects.
I have now become interested in crossbows. I made my first as a kid at the age of about 10 using the steel rod out of a toy bow and nailing it to the end of a piece of floor board. A loop of wire underneath hooked round a wooden lever shaped with two fingers to hold the bow string. It worked well and allowed me to play William Tell games which was running on TV in those days (mid 60's).
Your site is a great resource and I particularly like the "open source" idea of sharing knowledge. Ivo, and the others instrumental in running it are to be congratulated.
Regards,
Baskethilt

Hi Baskethilt,

The first time I bought 2 heavy prodds, some bow irons and stirrups from Alchem a few years ago. They arrived within a month and they were very good. I then got brave and spent the $ and ordered a custom prod of Alchem . I paid for it in advance (as requested) and then spent over a year of hassaling him trying to get it. I even went to the trouble of phoning him and I hate pestering people. I got lots of different excuses from him and promised arrival dates, none of which were meet. Eventually the prodd arrived. It is rough as an old pair of boots and is so whipp tillered that I decided it was too dangerous to use. At least I may be able to make some knives out of it. Maybe Jim Koch might read this post and do something to restore some of my faith in his business. I hope he does.

James

Hi James,
Now you have me worried, and I was before. I guess I'll have to wait and see whether I get the prods I have ordered and on time. Maybe Alchem are not good on the custom made ones, just the stock standard stuff.

I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and find someone to make them here for me. I am a great believer in "locally made" wherever you are. At least you can go and complain if they are local. It's a bit difficult when they are on another continent.

Just out of interest James (and I assume you are in NZ also), how are you getting your prods made?

Regards
Baskethilt