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    Levers, cranks, and other spanning devices.

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    Levers, cranks, and other spanning devices.

    Post by Admin on Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:41 pm

    There are a bunch of products on the market using levers and cranks as well as other contraptions for lifting or loading of various loads. Some crossbows today use one or another form of spanning mechanism and I would like to open a discussion on the design of such starting with the muddy backs and butts of the first crossbowmen and how they became cleaner and cleaner as our favorite weapon and it's accessories evolved.

    Many of you have probably already seen this video, but it wouldn't hurt to show it just once more.


    I'm planning on building my second crossbow with a built in spanning lever, but more about it later...there is so much more to discuss...

    Found this great website that has lots of info...might need a translator thou, but judging from the pictures it's definitely worth a closer look....


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    Re: Levers, cranks, and other spanning devices.

    Post by Ivo on Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:07 am

    I'm going to skip the goats foot lever and belt claw...I'll bring up examples of those being used in today's crossbows a little later.

    Cranequin is the one thing that caught my eye today. :@: This is the basic/standard version of craniquin I believe and I'm not sure, but it seems to me that it would not be a good idea to try winding down one of these.



    We probably all know about PSE's TAC crossbow that has a built in crank similar to a cranequin or I would say it's even closer to a windlass,



    One of the things that they advertise is that is can be wound down safely. Smile ...I don't own a TAC crossbow, but it seems to me...it's like the old saying goes...everything NEW is just well forgotten OLD...in a cool way thou! lol!



    I'm wondering...cutting gears by hand is possible...boring, but possible...but would "Leadscrew" be good for the job here(part# d)? pirat
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    Re: Levers, cranks, and other spanning devices.

    Post by Ivo on Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:35 pm

    Ivo wrote:A lever called "Column". The hook at the end of the arm of this lever pushes the string into the latch while sliding along the gap in the rail and when done slides back and disappears into the gap.

    Correction...this combination weapon crossbow gun was indeed very interesting...yet turned out slightly different in its function than what I previously believed.


    Thanks to Mr SAM and Zmeelink I was able to find out that this crossbow gun was spanned and loaded by multiple actions and not just that of the single built in lever. For more pics and info check out this topic..."Medieval Crossbows: Photos, Drawings, Diagrams"


    Last edited by Ivo on Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Levers, cranks, and other spanning devices.

    Post by Ivo on Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:22 am

    Russian made crossbow called AK-48... the name is only a small part of the deal. Cool






    This crossbow is loaded using a built in lever disguised as crossbows fore end grip.





    Spanning Lever in action. drunken



    Another video featuring this really nice Russian made crossbow.
















    Not exactly related to the topic, but one more thing that I like in crossbows and this one has this appeal.
    It can be disassembled for storage and transportation. Smile



    This particular image is of a newer model that can uses both arrows and steel ball ammunition.



    Last edited by Ivo on Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:25 pm; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : Adding new pictures/videos)
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    Re: Levers, cranks, and other spanning devices.

    Post by Ivo on Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:18 am

    Another one of my favorites. Russian made "Струна" also known as "Большой Стриж"...I'll explain about the names a little later on in the topic.

    Now this little toy is actually no longer available to the public as it has gotten itself in trouble with the secret service and it being used by them for launching little spy microphones all over the place...that's just one of the legends...the most likeliest of stories is actually not this exotic and has to do with the prod on this crossbow. In the beginning when the crossbow was first introduced to the public it came equipped with a prod that had 100Kg draw weight, but Russia's legal draw weight for a crossbow was somewhere in the 40Kg range. Very Happy I know...the spy story is cooler.

    This particular model was modified receiving a real kickass adjustable/collapsible limb system, as well as a solid stock replaced a removable one.




    Now lets get to the lever. It functions very differently from the usual routine where the string is being loaded into the latch by either pulling/pushing the string or moving the entire limb system to do the same...no, this one is very unique. Enjoy the video!



    As you can see from the video, it functions by actually moving the trigger assembly back and forth thus spanning the bow. If my memory isn't failing me, I believe this lever delivers a 1:7 load distribution, so if the prod was around 70lb loading it would feel more like 10lb. Wink




    Here are a few closeup photos of the lever mechanism and limb mount.





    The reason for a strange second name is *this little guy*...this is the first model that was simply called "Стриж" and is actually a more accurate representation of what the original looked like.



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    Re: Levers, cranks, and other spanning devices.

    Post by Ivo on Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:21 pm

    Given I started talking about the "little guys"...think I'll continue.

    Finally found a decent photo of the so called "self cocking" pistol crossbow.

    cheers 1417 x 692 cheers

    I've seen some boring videos of people sitting in garage and shooting the door as well as some videos of crazy crazy things done to these little crossbows...This is certainly one of those!



    I got a laugh from that one...Five stars man...thou when the zombies come I'll be packing those little arrows tight with quake rockets Twisted Evil ...ok I think I've said too much already. silent .... Laughing



    All I can say is it's a kick ass toy! santa
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    Re: Levers, cranks, and other spanning devices.

    Post by Ivo on Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:53 am

    This system is what sparked my love for lever action crossbows. Barnett Commando I & II


    The "I" recurve version is so sick that it even made it in Hollywood. Name's Bond...James Bond. pirat


    Then there was also another version of the same...a "compound" version to be exact. This was a step towards luxury...many little improvements were made...precision scope rail adjustment, little rollers to help prevent shifting of the string while swinging the lever back and forth...just to name a few. Thou the quality of some parts/design was still not at it's best.

    Thanks to Mike - The Weapon Collector, we can watch this crossbows lever in action(for you impatient ones...it's at 4:50 ).


    PS: If someone out there has one of these bows for sale...Please let me know about it...I'm looking into buying one of these for my collection as well. pirat


    Last edited by Ivo on Thu May 13, 2010 4:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Levers, cranks, and other spanning devices.

    Post by Fred on Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:51 am

    One of my first crossbows was a Barnett commando. Its a lovely crossbow, if a little heavy. I have considered copying the lever action on DIY projects but one limitation of it is the relatively short draw. the commando had a draw length of 12" compared to 14" on Barnetts other models.

    Apparently the commando is still being used by Peruvian special forces.

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    Re: Levers, cranks, and other spanning devices.

    Post by Ivo on Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:03 am

    Good Day to you Fred and Welcome,

    Above the fact that we share the affection towards the commando crossbow lever you are also from Ireland cheers ...I'm not from Ireland myself(Ukranian), but I've been there when a little younger...played golf with the local girls(some pretty ladies you guys have there)...I wish I remembered the names of cities I visited...I was just beginning to learn english then and my brain was toast before I even got off the plane. All in all it's a beautiful place...and If some one asked me where to go this Spring...I'd say Ireland...no joke! Smile

    Ok... back on topic

    A fellow crossbow builder here(Zmeelink) actually used this lever in one of his builds with great success...I thought I was going to drop a tear when I saw it for the first time...simply beautiful and so unique! Perhaps he will stop by this topic some day and post a few pictures of his work...it's amazing I tell you!

    I'm also interested in hearing more about your experience in an attempt to replicate this design...if you still have that project and don't mind posting a few pictures/diagrams it would be awesome. There are many unique solutions in when it comes to levers in crossbows...I'm anctious to hear more Very Happy

    I've been gathering some ideas around the net(mostly crossbow enthusiast ideas) like pressing all composite stocks or rolling your own composite tubes(as used in model rocket clubs) and then connecting them with cast aluminum joints...lots of interesting stuff and all in the name of evolution of crossbows...by the way how did you like the lever on "Струна" ? I have that one planned to be used in my little ninja crossbow that I have planned for the future. ninja vanish


    -just a little concept...still so much work to be done there

    Apparently the commando is still being used by Peruvian special forces.

    Interesting info...where did you get this from?
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    Re: Levers, cranks, and other spanning devices.

    Post by Fred on Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:53 am

    This link shows the Peruvian armed forces and their crossbows. Its nice to see that the commando lives on.

    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?33701-more-excelent-photos-of-perus-armed-forces

    I really like the look of that Russian crossbow. I recall that an American military crossbow from WW2 used a system where the lock could slide back and forward to pick up the string but it had no mechanical advantage.

    As for Ireland, it would be quite nice if it ever stopped raining!

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    Re: Levers, cranks, and other spanning devices.

    Post by Ivo on Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:37 am

    Thank you for the pictures...I also hear stories of Russian/American Special forces using crossbows in the time of war, but finding pictures turned out to be a waste of time for me...the Russian crossbow SF stories were told by Americans and American Crossbow SF stories were told by Russians and they didn't strike me as very convincing stories. Thou a lever would certainly make for a more tactical crossbow given you can be siting in a tree or walking in the swamp up to your chest in crap and still be able to span your crossbow when a stirrup would be impossible to use.

    The Russian crossbow has a flaw in it and it's the "no gap" for the arrow fletching leaving only two fletch arrows to be used....I tried to get around that part by usign a rail-less design in my model.

    I don't recall ever hearing of an American crossbow with a moving trigger mech...the only two that I do know of is the Russian and PSE TAC15...the rest are old bullet bows where trigger mech is a part of the spanning lever.

    As for short draw...well I guess that's the thing with levers...thou some compositions are better than others, but the base principal remains. There was this topic on forum.arbalet.info where a guy modified his crossbow to be used with a lever(only it wasn't commando lever): http://forum.arbalet.info/viewtopic.php?t=8199&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

    I also have this one book with a nice crossbow lever section in it....I'll take a few diagrams from there will be back with them tomorrow.

    Fred wrote:As for Ireland, it would be quite nice if it ever stopped raining!

    It wouldn't be Ireland then Laughing ...Misty morning and a cup of hot tea...good memories. Smile
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    Re: Levers, cranks, and other spanning devices.

    Post by Fred on Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:15 am

    I think that George Stevens refers to the American weapon in his book, "Crossbows - from thirty five years with the weapon". This book was published in 1980 and would probably be hard to obtain nowdays. The crossbow had a conventional wooden forestock with a pistol grip and the stock was made of heavy wire, a bit like a submachine gun. This could slide forward with the lock to pick up the string but didnt offer any advantage other than accurate string alignment. Although he described it as a military weapon, this might be an erroneous legend since the western allies had access to effective silenced guns anyway. I will see if I can look up more info tonight.

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    Re: Levers, cranks, and other spanning devices.

    Post by Fred on Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:33 am

    Here is a photo of the crossbow in George Stevens book. Aplogies for the poor quality. I doubt if the army ever procured any of these.
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    Re: Levers, cranks, and other spanning devices.

    Post by Ivo on Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:25 am

    Thanks for looking it up and the pic quality is just fine...I also agree on the silenced guns being more available especially the .22 cal which was made so silent that shooting it sounded just as quite as a crossbow(if not quieter). But the idea of a moving trigger assembly has been a fascinating topic spinning in my head from the moment I found out about it...I have a few ideas on the subject, but recently lost all my models with(computer crashed) I'll need to redo some models that were not backed up, so it's going to be in words for now. The idea is actually simple and was inspired by the back view of the TAC15's sliding trigger mech carriage...there is a finger in the back to which the cord attaches and it slides in a raised position all the way to the trigger housing with the rail preventing it from collapsing and releasing the string...and once the bow is drawn and the carriage returns to the trigger housing it becomes engaged with the trigger mechanism...the trigger system is not the conventional sear type, but similar to the one used on Twinbow(speaking of which...I haven't added that one here yet tongue )...sort of like the release on for compound bows...as they call it the dog-leg system. Smile

    Also sticking to my promise about those lever diagrams...starting with the goats-foot lever charts. Pretty much self explanatory...



    L (mm) l (mm) F (Kg) at P=5Kg F (Kg) at P=10Kg F (Kg) at P=20Kg
    580 87 5x6.6=33 10x6.6=66 20x6.6=132
    630 100 5x6.3-31.5 10x6.3=63 20x6.3=126

    I apologize, but I'm going to hit the bunk on this and continue with uploading the tables tomorrow (tough day at work) slice :affraid:


    Last edited by Ivo on Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:30 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Book diagram taken from is "Bows and crossbows. The history of weapons." by Y. Shokarev)
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    Re: Levers, cranks, and other spanning devices.

    Post by Ivo on Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:41 am

    So tomorrow finally came 🐰

    Here is another table from that book...interesting thing about this one is that as pressure is applied to the lever of this design to span the bow...the power application requirements do not rise as in the previous, but with the shifting point of support the lever is pulling the increasing weight of the prod while the shooter is still applying the same pressure. This type of lever was able to span up to 200lb+ prods while only applying 30lb of pressure...such a lever could go on spanning crossbows with prods rating up to 400lb.


    L(mm) l(mm) F(kg) at P=5kg F(kg) at P=10kg F(kg) at P=20kg
    410 410 3.7x5=18.5 3.7x10=37 3.7x20=74
    L1(mm) l1(mm) F(kg) at P=5kg F(kg) at P=10kg F(kg) at P=20kg
    330 45 7.3x5=36.5 7.3x10=73 7.3x20=146


    Last edited by Ivo on Thu May 13, 2010 3:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Levers, cranks, and other spanning devices.

    Post by Ivo on Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:25 am

    My idea, thou very primitive and probably even a little silly is to use collapsible/telescopic lever arms...

    The idea is focused around an item a friend of mine showed me once...he had just bought a pair of telescopic nunchuks. ninja vanish

    Sorta like these...



    and quickly a thought was born(yep that's an envelope...could've been a napkin...) Smile



    and then another one with a pistol shaped foregrip that swings out latching onto the riser > twists to expand > cocks the crossbow > and with one motion snaps the crossbow back, telescopically folds, and latches to the point of origin....almost like a Winchester. tongue



    This is all just jibber jammer and no actual calculation yet. Simply a quick fun thought I had and wanted to share. king
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    Re: Levers, cranks, and other spanning devices.

    Post by Ivo on Sat May 15, 2010 12:36 am

    Another one of my favorites...

    Crossbow built by SCM (Swiss Crossbow Makers) - Twinbow I, II, II (Six-pack riser)



    Technically this one is considered a recurve...the wheels on bow tips are "idler wheels" which serve a more transitional/balancing purpose rather than functioning like cams on compounds. Having a 15" axle-to-axle "wingspan" Twinbow is rated at 300lb and if we turn to Moonkricket's timing (AT Forum), it spits a 20" - 400 grain hunting arrow at around 310fps...which is pretty good.

    The spanning lever incorporated into this crossbow's design is simply wicked (...like all spanning levers )

    Thou not as detailed, I still like the original videos posted on the tube by scmralph...no stupid music, just plain good demonstration.



    And I yanked a "few" photos from >>> http://www.aiacrossbow.com/crossbow/twinbowii/













    And here is TB2 with the updated "six-pack" riser.


    Turn down your speakers for the video





    And another good batch of photos...Thanks Tom!




    Like all cool crossbows, TB2 also made it's way into Hollywood

    ...only in a weirdest way



    Any way... if anyone wants to buy a scuffed-up Twinbow without accessories for $3000-$5000(don't forget, Alice shot a zombie knocking it back 10 yards and pinning it to a trailer ) be my guest >>>Link






    The last thing I would like to mention that not many people notice until they read the reviews and/or actually shoot the crossbow... the safety switch is located on the back of the grip and disengages in a fashion similar to Colt handguns...all in all this crossbow comes with a load of cool features...and...and...and...I want one! ...but not before I buy a one of these >>>LINK



    Last edited by Ivo on Sat May 15, 2010 2:10 am; edited 3 times in total




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    Re: Levers, cranks, and other spanning devices.

    Post by Ivo on Sat May 15, 2010 1:22 am

    Haha! Another addition to the collection of cool lever action crossbows!

    Designed, built, and patented by a Ukrainian fellow...a very unique multi-shot, lever-action crossbow. Not exactly a hunting weapon, but definitely a wicked concept.

    "Stretec ҃ "
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    )






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    Re: Levers, cranks, and other spanning devices.

    Post by Fred on Mon May 24, 2010 1:44 am

    Thanks for sharing the stretec video with is, its an interesting design of crossbow. It reminds me of another design which was promoted on the internet by a french bloke called Eugene Mondet a few years ago. His crossbow had a high capacity box magazine on its underside and an inverted track. The track was magnetic so the steel tipped bolts were easily retained. It had a different cocking lever arrangement and the builder claimed that it had very good accuracy and power. Unfortunately I cannot find any current reference to this design, perhaps the builder wants to keep it secret!

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    Never thought

    Post by Leatherman on Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:03 pm

    I logged on to build a simple recurve and now I see this.

    This could be addicting.
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    Re: Levers, cranks, and other spanning devices.

    Post by Ivo on Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:34 am

    Ivo wrote:If only I could figure out the moving trigger assembly

    I always try to make things more complex then they have to be...why in the world did I want a split trigger mechanism with a moving latch assembly as seen on PSE Tac crossbows, when moving the entire trigger is so much simpler...did I need the head ache? I think yes...I deserved it for being a fool.






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    Re: Levers, cranks, and other spanning devices.

    Post by jeep on Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:21 am

    Great studied.
    As everybody knew the build in cocking lever is as old then the crossbow to remind let me post few pictures of old Chinese model even prior to the Chu ku no it is more like "sliding" member, a "CHU" crossbow


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    Re: Levers, cranks, and other spanning devices.

    Post by jeep on Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:27 am

    In fact the trigger go back and forts piking up the rope and pulling it back to be released at the end.


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    Re: Levers, cranks, and other spanning devices.

    Post by jeep on Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:30 am

    automatic realising:


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    Re: Levers, cranks, and other spanning devices.

    Post by jeep on Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:37 am

    the real stuff


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    Re: Levers, cranks, and other spanning devices.

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