Crossbows - Everything about Building, Modding, and Using your Crossbow Gear

Latest topics

» thank you n hope to learn in this forum
by kenh Yesterday at 5:01 am

» Red Oak Board (x)Bow.
by banuvatt Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:20 am

» New member intro and couple of questions
by Wildtech Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:46 am

» best way of spanning a 200+lb bow
by stuckinthemud1 Fri May 31, 2019 3:31 am

» where to find antler for nut construction
by victortkz Sat May 25, 2019 10:47 am

» Steel prod - unknown draw weight
by Cornerstone Sat May 25, 2019 3:07 am

» Compound twinbow pistol (posts vs pulleys)
by Mooki Mon May 06, 2019 8:21 am

» making a reproduction of a 15th century cranequin
by victortkz Fri May 03, 2019 3:51 am

» can you point me in the direction of a post on nut-making
by kenh Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:09 am

» Chinese Han Dynasty Crossbow 300lbs 20" powerstroke
by Geezer Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:56 am

» My latest crossbow creation, the Vanquish
by MPDVM Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:50 pm

» Steel prod on a crossbow
by c sitas Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:33 am

» robin allen crossbow for sale or trade
by elkhunter Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:47 pm

» man made material for reinforced socket
by 8fingers Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:36 pm

» Dimension help
by kenh Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:15 am

» how do I finish a mixed material tiller
by stuckinthemud1 Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:55 am

» All metal Self Loading Crossbow Build Information needed
by Wildtech Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:01 am

» hello! introductions
by kenh Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:31 pm

» Brand new Demon crossbow
by Phil Abrahams Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:33 am

» SOLD: Masai Huntsman Crossbow
by TonyU Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:05 pm

» Another New Crossbow Builder
by Geezer Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:40 pm

» Side plates and axle pin?
by Geezer Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:01 pm

» 3D crossbow design
by Andy. Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:23 pm

» Making a stirrup
by Geezer Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:17 pm

» 8mm or 10mm for pivot
by stuckinthemud1 Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:33 pm


    Central European Sporting Bow

    cmgower
    cmgower
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows

    Posts : 23
    Join date : 2010-11-11
    Location : New York

    Central European Sporting Bow Empty Central European Sporting Bow

    Post by cmgower on Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:13 pm

    This is my first attempt at a bow, I have been inspires by many of you on his site! After reading Iolo's first book of crossbows I decided to give it a try. I started with the Alchem's basic plan that is posted on their site and then with my knowledge from Iolo I put in by own twists. I tried to go with a central European sporting look. I am also wood burning patterns into the stock, this was inspired by some of the bows on display at the Metropolitain Museum of Art.
    Central European Sporting Bow Img_2016
    Central European Sporting Bow Img_2017
    Central European Sporting Bow Img_2018
    Central European Sporting Bow Img_2019
    The stock is oak and the table and side inlays are maple the nut insert and inlays are cherry. I made the tickler on my bench vice I wanted to give it a sharp return as most Central European ticklers but I don't have access to welding equiptment. I ordered a prod from Alchem and I am patiently waiting!!!
    Hope you all like!! Please let me know what you think!
    More to come......
    Basilisk120
    Basilisk120
    Moderator
    Moderator

    Posts : 548
    Join date : 2010-03-01
    Age : 40
    Location : Arizona

    Central European Sporting Bow Empty Re: Central European Sporting Bow

    Post by Basilisk120 on Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:18 pm

    WOW Shocked So far so good. I'll be following this builds closely



    Something Something Dark Side
    Ivo
    Ivo
    Admin
    Admin

    Posts : 1041
    Join date : 2009-11-25
    Age : 31
    Location : NJ, USA

    Central European Sporting Bow Empty Re: Central European Sporting Bow

    Post by Ivo on Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:41 pm

    Hello there,

    Looks very promising and I'm sure everyone here appreciates your good word about their work.

    Alchem takes a while to deliver due to not always having every item in stock, so you can probably go ahead and continue with the build...burn-in decoration sounds excellent...possibly Ulrich Crossbow got you thinking about it? Smile

    PS: Once you are done with this one, we'll talk about a better set of plans for a "correct reproduction" truly worthy of the name...that is if you will be interested. Wink

    Ivo



    Central European Sporting Bow Untitled
    * *
    ~ "I don't have any special talents. I'm only passionately curious."
    * * *
    ~ "All Genius is Simple"
    * *
    cmgower
    cmgower
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows

    Posts : 23
    Join date : 2010-11-11
    Location : New York

    Central European Sporting Bow Empty Re: Central European Sporting Bow

    Post by cmgower on Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:53 am

    Thank you all for the comments!!
    Ivo you hit the nail on the head!! yes the crossbow of Count Ulrich is the inspiration! I wanted to build a crossbow for some time and did research and after a trip to the MET I found myself in the garage with pieces of left over oak maple and not enough cherry to make the whole tiller out of!! so I went with oak! I would definately be interested in those plans!
    Ivo
    Ivo
    Admin
    Admin

    Posts : 1041
    Join date : 2009-11-25
    Age : 31
    Location : NJ, USA

    Central European Sporting Bow Empty Re: Central European Sporting Bow

    Post by Ivo on Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:11 am

    cmgower wrote: I made the tickler on my bench vice I wanted to give it a sharp return as most Central European ticklers but I don't have access to welding equiptment.

    That sharp angle is a tricky one, isn't it? Smile

    You don't really need a welder, and not because I consider it "cheating" Laughing , but because some things are more fun to make the old way(and perhaps the old way can even be the easier way Wink )

    Look through this book (Link) ...pages 72 through 81( PDF search, not actual pages)...pages 76-77 have a good explanation of how to do sharp bends. And to add a bit, you don't really need to hammer steel right away, but instead practice with a piece of clay...kinda like this guy does it. (link)

    Ivo



    Central European Sporting Bow Untitled
    * *
    ~ "I don't have any special talents. I'm only passionately curious."
    * * *
    ~ "All Genius is Simple"
    * *
    mac
    mac
    Master Weaponsmith
    Master Weaponsmith

    Posts : 560
    Join date : 2010-12-23
    Location : Near Philly USA

    Central European Sporting Bow Empty Re: Central European Sporting Bow

    Post by mac on Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:31 pm

    cmgower wrote: I made the tickler on my bench vice I wanted to give it a sharp return as most Central European ticklers but I don't have access to welding equiptment..

    You can make the trigger out of two pieces, with a brazed joint. This can be done with a good propane torch. I will try to remember to take a picture of the one I made this way and post it.

    Mac
    cmgower
    cmgower
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows

    Posts : 23
    Join date : 2010-11-11
    Location : New York

    Central European Sporting Bow Empty Re: Central European Sporting Bow

    Post by cmgower on Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:26 am

    OK I know it's been a while but here are some more pictures of my progress. These are of the tiller the wood burning is complete and the tung oil applied.
    Central European Sporting Bow Img00010
    Central European Sporting Bow Img00011
    Central European Sporting Bow Img00012
    avatar
    8fingers
    Workshop Savvy

    Did you see my tool collection?


    Workshop SavvyDid you see my tool collection?

    Posts : 196
    Join date : 2011-04-06
    Location : Chetwynd, BC, Canada

    Central European Sporting Bow Empty Re: Central European Sporting Bow

    Post by 8fingers on Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:16 am

    Very Nice cheers The work below the table looks like inlaid banding.
    Getting a lever welded to the shape you want could be done at a variety of places. Welding supply shops often have factory reps come in to demos of new equipment, art or industrial colleges probably have someone who will do it for you. Contact your local SCA group ( www.sca.org) and see if they have a contact person, plus they would love to see this masterpiece.
    Basilisk120
    Basilisk120
    Moderator
    Moderator

    Posts : 548
    Join date : 2010-03-01
    Age : 40
    Location : Arizona

    Central European Sporting Bow Empty Re: Central European Sporting Bow

    Post by Basilisk120 on Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:45 pm

    Wow that is looking really sweet. The wood burning is nice, good clean lines.



    Something Something Dark Side
    kiltedcelt
    kiltedcelt
    Tinkerer

    If there is a will, there is a way.


    TinkererIf there is a will, there  is a way.

    Posts : 91
    Join date : 2010-02-17

    Central European Sporting Bow Empty Re: Central European Sporting Bow

    Post by kiltedcelt on Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:33 am

    mac wrote:
    cmgower wrote: I made the tickler on my bench vice I wanted to give it a sharp return as most Central European ticklers but I don't have access to welding equiptment..

    You can make the trigger out of two pieces, with a brazed joint. This can be done with a good propane torch. I will try to remember to take a picture of the one I made this way and post it.

    Mac

    Mac - I'd like to see how you do that. I'm working on several crossbows right now and each one will need a slightly different tickler, none of which resemble the ready-made ticklers that Alchem sells. I don't want to pay someone to custom make the ticklers for me if it's something I can do myself, especially with a propane torch. I like Ivo's ideas about making bends with proper forging but that's something I'm not sure I can do because I'm pretty sure I can't get the metal hot enough given the limits of the tools at my disposal. Worst case scenario I find a welding shop and have my ticklers cut out from flat stock with a plasma cutter or get them to bend, weld and grind the joints for me.
    cmgower
    cmgower
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows

    Posts : 23
    Join date : 2010-11-11
    Location : New York

    Central European Sporting Bow Empty Re: Central European Sporting Bow

    Post by cmgower on Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:53 am

    8fingers wrote: Very Nice cheers The work below the table looks like inlaid banding.
    Getting a lever welded to the shape you want could be done at a variety of places. Welding supply shops often have factory reps come in to demos of new equipment, art or industrial colleges probably have someone who will do it for you. Contact your local SCA group ( www.sca.org) and see if they have a contact person, plus they would love to see this masterpiece.
    Very Happy Thanks 8fingers the burning looking like banding was a last minute decision, and was intentional. Last minute I decided not to go so crazy with the burning, it wasnt going the way I intended, Neutral and after all this is my first bow! I have resolved the welding issue now, however now I have grown fond of the tickler the way it is. I have also recently connected with my local SCA group and have yet to make it to any functions but I am looking forward to my first SCA archery shoot! Thanks again! Central European Sporting Bow 524936
    mac
    mac
    Master Weaponsmith
    Master Weaponsmith

    Posts : 560
    Join date : 2010-12-23
    Location : Near Philly USA

    Central European Sporting Bow Empty Re: Central European Sporting Bow

    Post by mac on Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:14 pm

    kiltedcelt wrote:
    mac wrote:
    cmgower wrote: I made the tickler on my bench vice I wanted to give it a sharp return as most Central European ticklers but I don't have access to welding equiptment..

    You can make the trigger out of two pieces, with a brazed joint. This can be done with a good propane torch. I will try to remember to take a picture of the one I made this way and post it.

    Mac

    Mac - I'd like to see how you do that. I'm working on several crossbows right now and each one will need a slightly different tickler, none of which resemble the ready-made ticklers that Alchem sells. I don't want to
    pay someone to custom make the ticklers for me if it's something I can do myself, especially with a propane torch. I like Ivo's ideas about making bends with proper forging but that's something I'm not sure I can do because I'm pretty sure I can't get the metal hot enough given the limits of the tools at my disposal. Worst case scenario I find a welding shop and have my ticklers cut out from flat stock with a plasma cutter or get them to bend, weld and grind the joints for me.

    Celt,

    Here is a pic of a trigger I made by brazing.

    Central European Sporting Bow Brazed11

    I think I probably used an industrial silver solder, rather than a brass braze. They work at a slightly lower temp and flow better. I used a commercial brazing flux. It goes on as a powder, and turns glassy at at dull red heat. The silver solder will flow at bright red. A good propane torch will give you enough heat to do it. If that won't do, try MAPP gas. That will get you a bit more heat.

    Surface preparation is important. The better the fit of the joint, the smaller the braze line, and the stronger the results.

    Mac
    cmgower
    cmgower
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows

    Posts : 23
    Join date : 2010-11-11
    Location : New York

    Central European Sporting Bow Empty Re: Central European Sporting Bow

    Post by cmgower on Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:24 pm

    Celt,
    Thanks for bringing this up!
    Mac,
    Thanks for the pic and expanation.
    scratch Where do you but the commecial brazing flux and silver solder? I am asuming this can be bought at a local welding supply house? The tickler in the photo is more of what i had origionally envisioned! Maybe on the next build! Wink
    mac
    mac
    Master Weaponsmith
    Master Weaponsmith

    Posts : 560
    Join date : 2010-12-23
    Location : Near Philly USA

    Central European Sporting Bow Empty Re: Central European Sporting Bow

    Post by mac on Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:47 pm

    CMG,

    That's exactly right. Your local welding supply will have both. Silver solder is a bit pricey, but it goes a long way. Many industrial silver solders contain cadmium to bring down the melting point. I use a cadmium free solder...they're just as strong, and "better for ya'".

    Here's a link to a similar product to the one I use. It's a little lower temperature.
    http://www.comfortgurus.com/product_info.php/products_id/9506

    McMaster Carr has a bewildering assortment.
    http://www.mcmaster.com/#silver-brazing-alloys/=c27b4q

    Do not be deceived by the tin/silver solders that you can get at craft stores. Those work at very low temperatures, and are not nearly as strong. There are things that they are good for, but this is not one of them...

    Mac
    cmgower
    cmgower
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows

    Posts : 23
    Join date : 2010-11-11
    Location : New York

    Central European Sporting Bow Empty Re: Central European Sporting Bow

    Post by cmgower on Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:09 pm

    Mac,
    Thanks again! Looks like I'll have to try my hand at brazing Central European Sporting Bow 796330 that is one thing I've never tried! I've used cutting torches and welded but never brazed any thing just went right for the welder, but now I no longer have tose resources (for now that is!) I'm definatly going to try this out a few times and use it possibly on the next bow!
    avatar
    8fingers
    Workshop Savvy

    Did you see my tool collection?


    Workshop SavvyDid you see my tool collection?

    Posts : 196
    Join date : 2011-04-06
    Location : Chetwynd, BC, Canada

    Central European Sporting Bow Empty Re: Central European Sporting Bow

    Post by 8fingers on Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:12 pm

    Years ago I ran across something called a bean can forge.
    Here is a link to something like it but updated. I was thinking a hole in the back would allow you to heat the middle of a tickler for forge welding. Our local SCA blacksmiths use borax for a flux, bought at the supermarket in the laundry aisle.http://www.zoellerforge.com/coffee.html
    cmgower
    cmgower
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows

    Posts : 23
    Join date : 2010-11-11
    Location : New York

    Central European Sporting Bow Empty Re: Central European Sporting Bow

    Post by cmgower on Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:44 am

    8finger,
    Thanks for sharing! Looks like I found a few more projects after looking at that site! I didn't know about the borax. I was wondering what a traditional flux would have been.
    cmgower
    cmgower
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows

    Posts : 23
    Join date : 2010-11-11
    Location : New York

    Central European Sporting Bow Empty Re: Central European Sporting Bow

    Post by cmgower on Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:22 am

    Central European Sporting Bow 669485 Ok here we go! I bound on the the much awaited prod! The Prod is bound with 180lb Hemp cord and is seized with artificial sinew. The skein is aritficial sinew with waxed linen servings. I still need to adjust the fistmele. Just holding this is awe inspiring I'm Hooked!
    Central European Sporting Bow Img00014
    Central European Sporting Bow Img_2016
    Central European Sporting Bow Img_2017
    Central European Sporting Bow Img_2018
    Central European Sporting Bow Img_2019
    I still have to put on the finishing touches spring clip, stirrup, and adjust the fistmele. I also started to make a few bolts. I scrapped my original stirrup I didn't like the way it looked on this bow, so I'm back to square one on the stirrup. I am also considering scrapping the whole stirrup idea and going with a hanging ring and a Gaffe, or a Wippe. Let me know your thoughts.
    CMG
    mac
    mac
    Master Weaponsmith
    Master Weaponsmith

    Posts : 560
    Join date : 2010-12-23
    Location : Near Philly USA

    Central European Sporting Bow Empty Re: Central European Sporting Bow

    Post by mac on Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:28 am

    CMG,

    Stop right now!

    If you shoot the bow with the brace height that low, the string will probably strike your bolt support. It might or might not knock it off and damage the dovetail.

    Better safe than sorry.

    Also, you have a lot of twists in your string. this will rob power...All the more so if you raise the brace height by twisting it further.

    While we are on the subject of strings. I see you have used "artificial sinew". That stuff is made of nylon, and is really too stretchy for an efficient string.

    I usually use polyester http://www.3riversarchery.com/Brownell++B-50+Bow+String+Material_c0_s0_p0_i4144X_product.html
    The light brown (g) looks most like linen.

    All in all, I see a new string in your future.

    Mac
    cmgower
    cmgower
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows

    Posts : 23
    Join date : 2010-11-11
    Location : New York

    Central European Sporting Bow Empty Re: Central European Sporting Bow

    Post by cmgower on Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:50 am

    Mac,
    Thank you, I just put the string on to try the fit (too long) this is the second string I made the first one was to short (maybe not!) I have to fashion a bastard string as I was unable to get the first string on. I was unaware that the twists in the string robbed power. So.... Looks like I'll be on to skein three! Well at least I'll be well practiced, and maybe third time is a charm! I like the bow string material! Thanks for the link.
    CMG
    Todd the archer
    Todd the archer
    Crossbow Junkie

    I live here!


    Crossbow JunkieI live here!

    Posts : 581
    Join date : 2010-02-25
    Age : 57
    Location : sellersville,pa.

    Central European Sporting Bow Empty Re: Central European Sporting Bow

    Post by Todd the archer on Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:30 pm

    Looks great, really like the pattern on the back of the prod, how did you do that? Now for a couple of constructive crictical comments:

    -go with the other string material Mac suggested

    -brace height I think should be 2 3/4" to 3"

    -your bolt rest may be too high causing your bolts to kick up as the fletching go over it(find out when you shoot it)

    -and lastly, depending on how thick your string is, you may experience a misfire as the string might go under the bolt at release because you are not using a bolt groove.(I have experienced this personally)

    Those last two items were not a problem on originals because they used really fat strings and and just as fat bolts.

    All in all you did a very nice job on that. Fancier than anything I have built.

    Todd
    Ivo
    Ivo
    Admin
    Admin

    Posts : 1041
    Join date : 2009-11-25
    Age : 31
    Location : NJ, USA

    Central European Sporting Bow Empty Re: Central European Sporting Bow

    Post by Ivo on Thu May 05, 2011 8:25 pm

    Didn't have much time last time I checked in, now checking in and see updates with the prod already bound in place...damn that thing looks sweet. Are you making a matching bolt clip?

    I knew it was going to look great, but "this great"...didn't expect it. Thanks for the pleasant surprise CMG. drunken

    Now the technical side...

    First with the twists in the string...the idea behind the twist in the string is it function on the similar principal a coiled expansion spring does. Hope this brings a good picture to mind. Wink

    The bolt riser rest seems fine to my inexperienced eye, but it's better to five it a few shots and see.

    The brace height the guys were already on top of...as well as the string material.

    Well...all I can suggest is blackening the tickler so everything matches, but that's just me - I like black metallic. Laughing

    Oh..and definitely tell us how you did that prod decoration....engraving, chemical etch ? cyclops

    Ivo



    Central European Sporting Bow Untitled
    * *
    ~ "I don't have any special talents. I'm only passionately curious."
    * * *
    ~ "All Genius is Simple"
    * *
    cmgower
    cmgower
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows

    Posts : 23
    Join date : 2010-11-11
    Location : New York

    Central European Sporting Bow Empty Re: Central European Sporting Bow

    Post by cmgower on Wed May 11, 2011 9:30 am

    Smile OK I fixed the string twist and the fistmele it is now just shy of 3". I ended up lashing on the stirrup that I don't really care for Neutral all in all it doesn't look that bad because I etched it, But I still have plans for a new one! (pictures to follow) I fab'ed an added a spring clip(didn't etch it) I ordered the string material Mac suggested and will be making my next Shocked (4th) string out of it! Also Ivo I agree! I think the tickler being black will tie it all in (spring clip is also black).
    Central European Sporting Bow 825761 So to the fun stuff! I finally got to shooting! I threw together a few bolts, went to a freinds May day gathering and killed some serious hay Central European Sporting Bow 292120 !
    I am really happy with its performance! Central European Sporting Bow 932938
    I was not so happy with my bolt construction Central European Sporting Bow 487129 I used tips for aluminum arrows Central European Sporting Bow 207946 they ended up breaking off Mad but I did have my fun before they died! The bolts flew straight and fast! I am totally HOOKED! Central European Sporting Bow 499925
    ON to the etching! It is just that good old fashioned etching! I put on some masking tape drew a simple design cut out the design with an exacto knife and etched the surface with a small awl 45degrees then 90 degrees to that. just need to keep the awl very sharp and essentially all you are doing is removing the paint to expose the metal below. you can finish up by sealing it with a clear coat to prevant rust.

    cheers Thanks for all you advice and comments!
    CMG

    Sponsored content

    Central European Sporting Bow Empty Re: Central European Sporting Bow

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:44 am