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    A few questions

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    Archer46176
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    A few questions

    Post by Archer46176 on Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:06 pm

    Hey fellas, just thought I would pop in with a few questions and make you all do some thinking to keep you on your toes...hahaha... I cut some furniture grade oak 3/4" plywood last night into 6" wide x4' long pieces to laminate for my medieval style tiller. Since it is plywood(it is 11 layers) I think I will make a nut carriage out of solid hardwood and cut a mortise in the tiller for the nut carriage to fit into. Now I know everything kind of depends on the prod so is there a chart anywhere that I may have missed saying what the draw or poerstroke should be for a given prod strength? Is there a typical length for a tiller? What is a typical angle for the prod to be set at? I have a few more websites to look at now and may find these things there but I thought it may be good to get all the different replies from you veteran builders here. Oh and also is the tiller typically tucked under the arm a bit when firing, the butt held to the cheek, or rested against the shoulder?

    Paul

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    Re: A few questions

    Post by Wilhelm on Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:02 pm

    Paul,

    I'm by no means an expert, but here is what I can tell you:

    1. Power stroke has more to do with the length and material of a prod than its strength. For example, a long laminated wood and fiberglass prod (like the Elk Ridge one) is made to have a pretty long power stroke (14 inches, if I recall correctly) at 150ish pounds, while the shorter Alchem prods have an eight-inch power stroke, regardless of poundage. Your power stroke depends entirely upon the limitations imposed by length of the prod and material. I'm sure someone can give you some solid numbers if you post what kind of prod you're using.

    2. Typical length for tillers varies pretty widely. Some bows are made short and stocky, others long. I recommend looking at Iolo's First Book of Crossbows (you can link to it through New World Arbalest's website - see the options on the left side of the page). Near the end of the short book, you'll find drawings of various period crossbows and the length that a particular style might have been. It's an extremely helpful resource, and I recommend giving it the good old cover-to-cover before beginning a new project.

    3. The prod angle varies based on tip rise (how much an imaginary line drawn from nock to nock would rise above the top of the prod). Alchem's instructions recommend a 6 degree angle, but it varies. Again, knowing what kind of prod you're using can help people here answer this. Whatever the case, it is helpful to make a mockup of your final tiller in cheap wood (like a 2x4) so you can get a sense of what angle is needed to get the string to rest lightly on the tiller.

    4. Shooting position is a topic often discussed among crossbow builders from what I have seen. Geezer has posted some helpful insights on this topic - search through the "shooting tips" section of the forum to read up on this. Personally, I like to lightly rest the tiller on the top of my shoulder, but I am a rifle shooter who is used to having a shoulder rest.

    I hope this helps! Maybe post some more details about your build and I/others with more experience will be able to give more concrete advice.
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    mac
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    Re: A few questions

    Post by mac on Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:31 pm

    Archer,

    If it is a medieval crossbow, the tiller goes against the shooter's cheek. If it is to be a modern type of bow, you are free to do whatever you like.

    By the way, one "shoots" a bow. Unlike a gun, there is no"fire" involved. This is a small, but important point.

    Mac

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    Re: A few questions

    Post by Wilhelm on Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:43 pm


    Archer46176
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    Re: A few questions

    Post by Archer46176 on Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:07 pm

    Here is a link to the photobucket page where I have posted pictures of the tiller and stock I have roughed out.

    Hey Mac, thanks for clearing that up for me as an AVID traditional archer for over 25 years, an member of the US Army Infantry for several, a match competitor in the N.M.L.R.A for 16years, and a member of a 3 gun match shooting team (or maybe I should say firing team according to you) I would have never guessed there was no fire involved in the SHOOTING of a bow.
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    Ivo
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    Re: A few questions

    Post by Ivo on Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:31 pm

    Heh, no need for sarcasm Archer. Smile The man is just pointing out the obvious, but means no harm by it. Mac is a good guy and has some good info to share...hope you guys find middle ground and get along well. Smile

    Ivo

    PS: the link is missing by the way...if you need help in posting pictures, there is a topic in the FAQ forum.

    http://thearbalistguild.forumotion.com/t2-posting-pictures-video-tutorial




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    mac
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    Re: A few questions

    Post by mac on Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:15 pm

    Archer,

    I am sorry to have gotten you riled up. I meant no offense.

    I realize that people have been using the verb "shoot" for guns ever since at least as early as the 16the Century. It is only lately, though, (20th C?) that the verb "fire" has been applied to archery. I have taught myself not to say it, and hope to get others to do so as well.

    I guess I came across as too snarky, and for this I am sorry. I hope that you will accept my apology.

    Please continue to shoot your guns, but try not to fire your bows. Very Happy

    Mac

    Archer46176
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    Re: A few questions

    Post by Archer46176 on Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:09 pm

    Eh no harm no foulf on my end if there isn't on yours...Just been a little washed out on the forum thing lately and I tend to take things a bit harshly now. I actually removed myself from a couple of forums for this reason the other day. I know I was a little over the top with my reply and I appologize for it but that is mild compared to what I have ranted about on a couple of other forums lately...LOL... I know what you meant and that your were just trying to point something out to someone (me) that you know nothing about since I am pretty new round here. I guess it is about like me when I here someone saying clip instead of magazine when they are talking about different ammunition storage systems, 2 totally different things but many people don't know that... Again, sorry for going overboard with my sarcastic reply on my experiences...

    Paul

    Archer46176
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    Re: A few questions

    Post by Archer46176 on Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:11 pm

    Hope it works this time...

    http://s1107.photobucket.com/albums/h389/Archer46176/Crossbows/

    It's nothing to crow about just yet but hopefully I am on my way to making a few good crossbows.
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    mac
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    Re: A few questions

    Post by mac on Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:24 pm

    Archer/Paul,

    I'm OK if you're OK. Lets call it even and start afresh, and I'll try not to sound snarky.

    Mac

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