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    Mechanical Steampunk crossbow ideas.

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    whiteraven
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    New person here, bone crossbow ideas.

    Post by whiteraven on Sat May 19, 2012 2:44 pm

    Hi everyone. I'm Ryan from Arizona. I always liked crossbows, until a friend gave me a cheap little pistol one... now I'm really curious into making my own.

    I was wondering if anyone has used an animal spine as a base for a crossbow? I want to get a unique and kinda creepy look and I happen to have one lying in my supplies.

    Anyone got any cool ideas to add?

    Ivo
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    Re: Mechanical Steampunk crossbow ideas.

    Post by Ivo on Sun May 20, 2012 12:55 am

    Animal spine...

    My kind of thinking there.Cool I've had similar sinister thoughts for a long time now, using lower jaw section from cattle or a shoulder blade for a buttstock, hip bone or humerus for the tiller, some other bits fitted to make the pistol grip...haaa! That's some fun stuff! Very Happy

    Spine alone though might be a bit of a challenge. Perhaps you can do a skeletized frame from some maple ply to pin the bones to (it will be easier to mount the trigger/prod onto a frame) and then smooth the frame to bone connection with some putty?

    Paint it with white/gray or white/brown crackle effect paint, maybe?

    http://makethebestofthings.blogspot.com/2010/05/crackle-finish-with-elmers-glue.html



    Another fun thought would be to sculpt some floral/scroll appliques onto the bare sections of the frame and then paint them int some accenting color (off white stock, red scrolls / off white stock, black scrolls...I mean it's a thing of taste...in fact I think apoxie sculpt already comes in different shades, so you have some options Smile ).



    All in all, I love it! It's a real cool idea and will take or make an artist to execute. Definitely wishing you luck on this one.

    Lets see some pictures of the spine you got and maybe we can draw up and explore some sketches for more ideas.

    Ivo




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    whiteraven
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    Re: Mechanical Steampunk crossbow ideas.

    Post by whiteraven on Sun May 20, 2012 10:53 am

    Gathering some ideas. Still in the pre-planning stages...

    Facebook Album

    Ivo
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    Re: Mechanical Steampunk crossbow ideas.

    Post by Ivo on Mon May 21, 2012 3:36 am

    I only got a glimpse of that album before it became unavailable, but I think I know every crossbow in it by name Smile , so...

    Yeh, I think I get your flow.

    Throw this one into the idea bucket too.

    http://thearbalistguild.forumotion.com/t443-finnish-crossbow-forum#3779





    With a little bit of fiddling, you can probably fit the spine over the back of the *staff? Smile * and carve the tip into a claw shape. A little skull (coyote maybe) fitted over the nut would look sweet too. drunken

    ...perhaps you can even do the trigger lever encased in bone...just thoughts. Smile Smile Smile




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    Ivo

    PS: Now that I think about it...the *CLAW* might be a bit too much. Laughing ...and will make spanning the bow a *little* uncomfortable. silent ....I get carried away, please procede. Smile




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    Re: Mechanical Steampunk crossbow ideas.

    Post by Guest on Tue May 22, 2012 4:34 am

    Another fun thought would be to sculpt some floral/scroll appliques onto the bare sections of the frame

    Kris Kuksi does some cool stuff like that! Cool

    Chun-chun! chun-chun chun-chunc chun chUN!





    Look him up, evil looking stuff. Twisted Evil

    and Ivo, who's your girldfrind?



    Antho

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    Re: Mechanical Steampunk crossbow ideas.

    Post by ferdinand on Tue May 22, 2012 6:39 am

    Great looking stuff!
    But plesse dont shoot ur neighbour to get a spine haha.

    whiteraven
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    Re: Mechanical Steampunk crossbow ideas.

    Post by whiteraven on Tue May 22, 2012 10:57 am

    Album is viewable again, sorry for that.

    I think I like this style crossbow the most so far, though now seeing your sketch Ivo I may have to make that one for fun too.


    I want a different trigger style though,

    Anyone got the ability to make me a trigger set like that? Could be aluminum if cheaper.

    whiteraven
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    Re: Mechanical Steampunk crossbow ideas.

    Post by whiteraven on Thu May 24, 2012 8:50 pm

    So I played a bit with FAD (Foamcore Aided Design) and made a mockup of the mechanics of the crossbow I like. Hopefully test a few geometry things out before getting to the real build material (and saves countless hours when I add the decoration).



    What do you all think so far?

    I think I am going to adjust the air piston to some heavy gate springs I have (x4) and make the tension based on extension instead of compression. Now just have to figure out how. Smile

    jeep
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    Re: Mechanical Steampunk crossbow ideas.

    Post by jeep on Fri May 25, 2012 2:41 am

    A bit of reference wont hurt and will help everybody:
    This very interesting crossbow was design and patented by a master crossboyer Robert Van House in 1977. Richard Middleton mention him in his reference book "Man Powered-bullet"
    Quote:
    "At the American Crossbow Association's speed contest in 1978 Van House recorded a velocity of 370fps with a spring-powered version, and later shooting the same crossbow he achieved 427fps" "Again,it is worth noting that hight velocities result from a long draw"
    In the brevet he also draw a gaz powered version planned to produce lot more speed.

    jeep
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    Re: Mechanical Steampunk crossbow ideas.

    Post by jeep on Fri May 25, 2012 3:07 am

    Complete patent in free patent on line



    4169456 Short limb archery bow



    An archery bow provided with a pair of limbs which are
    relatively short in length in consideration of the length of draw
    provided. Pulleys are attached to the limbs and a block and tackle type
    of...

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    Re: Mechanical Steampunk crossbow ideas.

    Post by Ivo on Fri May 25, 2012 8:39 am

    Made some animations of the bow with the extension spring set up.

    Can't upload them to the tube for some reason, so here's my photobucket deal.

    This is with the *push* rods.(like on the original)



    This is with the *pull* rods.(I just flipped the levers there)



    And this is side by side.



    I didn't really go into the deal with which is more efficient, just set everything up to run the same speed (one video just lagged, but side by side worked ok)

    All in all, the whole deal with converting from compression spring to extension is throwing the spring over to the other side of the rods. Like so...



    A similar setup can be seen on this little flipper bow where the rubber bands are up front and pulling on the cables.



    But, I'm not too fond of "push rods", the deal is that a structure that supports weight has to be strong enough to withstand the load in compression...while to suspend the same weight teh structure can be substituted by a cable or a rod only strong enough to withstand the load in tension. Basically we're comparing here a chair leg and a piece of rope...which one is heavier?

    Same here, the weight of this transitional piece has to be accounted for when designing a bow....so to cut it short - I really like the system with a "pull rod" or "cable" (like in the second video and on the flipper.) because it's lighter and that will already boost the bows performance....not to mention the power storage for it...if rubber is used (though not as consistent as a metal or gas spring) even more weight will be cut down resulting in further improvement.

    I've thought about the construction of this bow too, personally I'd make it all out of metal ( ), but considering it's going to be a rather light bow I think some thin plywood will suffice (maybe some dense 1/4" or 3/8") with some holes drilled in the levers to lighten them. I actually started drawing up a set of plans and making a 3d model for it, alas I'm out of time for the day...maybe I'll put some more work in tonight.

    "Again,it is worth noting that hight velocities result from a long draw"

    Yeh, this bow has some seriously draw length. Smile Even if made light, it will put out some nice numbers.

    Now that I think about it...Tallisman's Mantis comes to mind too.(whiteraven, that little bow in your facebook album is mantis's baby brother, "Devil Claw" I thin is his name Laughing )



    That's it for now, I've depleted my forum time, will be back later to check on the situation. drunken

    Ivo




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    Re: Mechanical Steampunk crossbow ideas.

    Post by Ivo on Fri May 25, 2012 8:48 am

    Man, I really went on rambling there Razz ...think we should break down each system separately...the whole Sir Mixalot thing isn't working out. Laughing

    Ivo




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    whiteraven
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    Re: Mechanical Steampunk crossbow ideas.

    Post by whiteraven on Fri May 25, 2012 11:01 am

    Thanks everyone for the info. This design if from that patent, its a great looking design.

    I am building this on a long staff, so draw length can be significant if needed.

    I think the "bow" section will be mostly metal, like tubular aluminum.

    whiteraven
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    Re: Mechanical Steampunk crossbow ideas.

    Post by whiteraven on Fri May 25, 2012 11:29 am

    And a more simple design trigger like this...


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    Re: Mechanical Steampunk crossbow ideas.

    Post by Ivo on Fri May 25, 2012 12:35 pm

    Good choice with the trigger, didn't realize you were fine with a lever release with all the talk about the medieval hair trigger. Very Happy But yeh, great choice.

    But on a staff? Shocked I remember AboMickey built his Devil's Pitchfork crossbow....



    Awesome thing, and the draw length ....whoooh...and that's with a bull pup trigger.Smile

    But...with a lever release?....I think I just answered my own question about the deal with the staff. Laughing

    Hey, anything goes... Very Happy

    Good Luck,

    Ivo




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    whiteraven
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    Re: Mechanical Steampunk crossbow ideas.

    Post by whiteraven on Fri May 25, 2012 2:02 pm

    Am I making a bad choice?

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    Re: Mechanical Steampunk crossbow ideas.

    Post by Ivo on Fri May 25, 2012 2:40 pm

    Sorry, no...not at all.

    It's actually wicked....come to think of it Very Happy

    I'm just biased...no matter how hard I try to just flow with the variety of tastes, I keep coming back to my cursed way of thinking >>> gotta make it compact, gotta make it compact and powerful...and so on and so forth till I need a reset. Laughing

    Did you have any trouble understanding the bit about switching the system to extension spring? I kinda feel like I might have went a bit overboard with the explanation...not all are born poets so to speak. Embarassed Laughing

    Ivo

    PS: Personally, I'm looking forward to see how this project turns out, no matter what systems you choose or how long the draw will be. It's all about having fun building a shooter and busting some holes in things, right?




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    whiteraven
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    Re: Mechanical Steampunk crossbow ideas.

    Post by whiteraven on Fri May 25, 2012 4:10 pm

    Yeah, you explanation was great. Really helps.

    Ivo, you should take a look through my other photo albums on Facebook, see some of what I've done in the past.

    whiteraven
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    Re: Mechanical Steampunk crossbow ideas.

    Post by whiteraven on Sat May 26, 2012 4:03 pm

    Ok, did a slight redraw of the bow design. Let me know if it makes any sense.


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    Re: Mechanical Steampunk crossbow ideas.

    Post by Ivo on Sun May 27, 2012 7:40 am

    Looks great...one unnecessary bit that can be removed (I hear you, you can really get lost in all those rollers)...I'll finish up the model I'm working on real quick and post my thoughts.

    Also, there is a discussoi coming up on the trigger you chose, so stay tuned. Smile

    Ivo




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    Re: Mechanical Steampunk crossbow ideas.

    Post by whiteraven on Sun May 27, 2012 11:17 am

    This is what I was thinking as far as the tension on the bow. The red is the main drive tension, including the gates springs and I think I'll use the surgical rubber tubing?
    The blue is the propulsion drive, that transfers the kinetic power to the bolt upon firing.


    whiteraven
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    Re: Mechanical Steampunk crossbow ideas.

    Post by whiteraven on Sun May 27, 2012 3:02 pm

    And here's an idea on how I will do the "tickler" (I think that's the right term.)



    Yes, it's sculpted to resemble an octopus arm. Very Happy

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    Re: Mechanical Steampunk crossbow ideas.

    Post by whiteraven on Sun May 27, 2012 5:08 pm

    And I doodled a little more on the Trident portion of the design.


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    Re: Mechanical Steampunk crossbow ideas.

    Post by Ivo on Mon May 28, 2012 7:58 pm



    After doing the staff version...I just couldn't leave it at that and made a bull-pup version as well (the regular version is in the patent).

    Didn't add the strings and the spring dimensions/position is not important ,as everyone will be using whatever they can get their hands on...same with the axels/fasteners/connections. (also the draw length I just guessed...what would be the fun in making an accurate blueprint, right? )

    As you can see, the 3d view shows a pretty bulky front end that will make this thing look like gravity hammer (from halo Smile ) if made like a staff...also, at teh moment Ican't imagine how one would span a staff based crossbow, but I might just be lacking imagination. tongue

    Program needed to view the model is Sketchup.

    http://sketchup.google.com/download/

    Enjoy.

    PS: I'm no perfection, everyone welcome to chip in on the model if I missed something or made a mistake...I plan to edit/improve it in time.


    Last edited by Ivo on Tue May 29, 2012 4:31 pm; edited 1 time in total




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    Re: Mechanical Steampunk crossbow ideas.

    Post by whiteraven on Mon May 28, 2012 8:54 pm

    Got a bigger picture of the staff version?

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