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    Pin Diameters and peening

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    Stonedog
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    Pin Diameters and peening

    Post by Stonedog on Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:42 pm

    What Diameter should I use for the pins that:

    1. The nut revolves around

    2. The pin that the trigger revolves around

    Also, the pin for the trigger, should it just be peened a bit on one side and tapped into the stock or what method should I use to keep it in place??
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    Todd the archer
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    Re: Pin Diameters and peening

    Post by Todd the archer on Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:25 pm

    Don't really even need a pin for the nut as it should bear against the socket. As for the tickler axle I have used 3/16" steel rod. I don't peen mine, just make it a snug fit but that is just me.



    Todd

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    Re: Pin Diameters and peening

    Post by chaz on Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:58 pm

    Hey Stoney,

    Workin' on my first croswsbow build and that being said what I'm working out on my trigger assembly is to use metal side plates and 3/1 6" torsion roll pins on the trigger and the nut , then lap the nut and the trigger so they rotate smoothly around the pins and yet the pins stay tight in the side plates, however can be pushed through for replacement or repairs. This may not make sense to anyone but me, but I thought it might be worth sharing. Like most free advise it maybe worth what you pay for it. Yes moisture maybe able to get in that way, but I wont be using it in the rain.

    Chaz

    Stonedog
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    Re: Pin Diameters and peening

    Post by Stonedog on Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:09 pm

    When I say the pin for the nut, I mean the "axle" the nut revolves around....does that make sense?

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    Re: Pin Diameters and peening

    Post by chaz on Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:40 pm

    Yes Sir that is what I'm talkin' about

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    Geezer
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    Re: Pin Diameters and peening

    Post by Geezer on Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:17 pm

    Bypassing any questions about whether one ought to have solid pins in roller-nuts at all (lots of medieval bows have either nothing, or a simple nussfaden cord to keep the nut from oscillating or falling out) but 3/16 in. steel rod, supported by good, strong bushings of some sort should work well for anything you're likely to build. Geezer.
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    Re: Pin Diameters and peening

    Post by stoneagebowyer on Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:46 am

    3/16" is what I am currently using for a current German build with a double axel trigger. I am going to peen both ends of each pin/axel. I like peening one end held in a machine vise first, then make sure it is not too short that I don't have enough material to peen the other end, and not too much either. For the heavy German I am building after working out the bugs in the double axel trigger, I plan to use something a bit heavier, probably 1/4" steel cold rolled steel rod. I don't plan to put a pin for the rolling nut, as that is just not necessary. I do think that, for a non authentic crossbow, threading the ends of the pins and using acorn nuts would look handsome and easily let me remove the pins for repair or maintenance.

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    Re: Pin Diameters and peening

    Post by mac on Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:52 am

    Dane,

    Don't do it!

    Make the axles be a press fit in the wood and leave it at that, It you peen the ends, you can not ever get it apart again. These things are machines, and require periodic maintenance. You have got to be able to disassemble them without damaging anything.

    If the holes are all nice and perpendicular to the axis of the tiller, the axles will all stay in place nicely. When it comes time to take things apart, a few taps with a pin punch will do the trick.

    It is always best to emulate typical historical practice. Out ancestors have already worked the details out for us. Do what they did. Use the diameters they used.

    Mac

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    Re: Pin Diameters and peening

    Post by Stonedog on Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:20 am

    Agreed Mac

    The rifle builders of Colonial America would very slightly peen one side of the pins used to pin the barrel to the stock. it was done to make one side of the pin every so slightly larger, but not "peened over". When they were tapped into place it would create a nice snug pressed fit that could be tapped back out from the "non-peened" side of the stock. This allowed for a rock solid fit and still allow access to the barrel if (and when) needed.
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    Re: Pin Diameters and peening

    Post by stoneagebowyer on Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:01 am

    Thanks Mac. You saved me some down the road grief. Smile Do you recommend some brushing at the ends of the pins, flush with the wood? Or just wood?

    Dane
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    Re: Pin Diameters and peening

    Post by mac on Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:45 am

    Dane,

    I would make the pins very slightly "domed" on their ends. The transition from the cylindrical part of the axle to the dome would be flush with the surface of the wood. This produces an effect which is clean and smooth to the hand as well as the eye.

    The doming makes them look nice, and "softens" the corners, so they are less likely to scrape away any wood from the insides of their holes when they are driven in or out. It also makes them less likely to "mushroom" under the effect of the pin punch.

    Nicer crossbows have inlaid horn or bone washers around the holes. These might serve to protect the wood, and keep it from splintering, but if you are careful when assembling and disassembling, you will have no problem with leaving the holes naked. Someone who was not careful will probably chip the inlays anyway. I suspect that these inlays owe more to aesthetics than to function.

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    Re: Pin Diameters and peening

    Post by mac on Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:57 am

    Stonedog wrote:Agreed Mac

    The rifle builders of Colonial America would very slightly peen one side of the pins used to pin the barrel to the stock. it was done to make one side of the pin every so slightly larger, but not "peened over". When they were tapped into place it would create a nice snug pressed fit that could be tapped back out from the "non-peened" side of the stock. This allowed for a rock solid fit and still allow access to the barrel if (and when) needed.

    Stone,

    That's good as long as everyone knows to look for it. A ham-handed workman might drive the pins out the wrong way, and spoil the wood.

    I try to make the things I build as "fool resistant" as I can. The things I build for others are going immediately into the hands of people less skilled than myself; and I want them to be able to use them without trouble. The things I build for myself will more than likely end up in less skilled hands when I am gone; and it makes me sad to think that they will be easily ruined.

    Mac
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    Re: Pin Diameters and peening

    Post by stoneagebowyer on Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:11 pm

    mac wrote:Dane,

    I would make the pins very slightly "domed" on their ends. The transition from the cylindrical part of the axle to the dome would be flush with the surface of the wood. This produces an effect which is clean and smooth to the hand as well as the eye.

    The doming makes them look nice, and "softens" the corners, so they are less likely to scrape away any wood from the insides of their holes when they are driven in or out. It also makes them less likely to "mushroom" under the effect of the pin punch.

    Nicer crossbows have inlaid horn or bone washers around the holes. These might serve to protect the wood, and keep it from splintering, but if you are careful when assembling and disassembling, you will have no problem with leaving the holes naked. Someone who was not careful will probably chip the inlays anyway. I suspect that these inlays owe more to aesthetics than to function.

    Mac

    Mac, thanks again. I like the idea of doming the pins, and polished, they will look very handsome, in white or blued or browned.

    Dane

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