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    Prod Thought

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    chaz
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    Prod Thought

    Post by chaz on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:10 pm

    " Prod Thought" Just happen to have on hand some nice ,what appears to be,birch multi layered 5/16" x approx. 2 1/2 "x about 34" plywood that seems to have nice stiff spring qualities. After blocking the ends about 2" off the floor, standing in the middle of it and geting off it snapped back to its original shape. Also happen to have some 4" thin wall PVC pipe from which to cut appropriate strips that can be heated and flatened out. Obviously this conversation is headed toward lamination of the materials to produce a prod. Aware that some have made bows from pvc pipe and that when thinking of more modern day laminations it concerns the use of fiberglass and layers of wood, my thought is of the pvc on the belly and back of the prod. In he course of thinking this out, before experimenting, the problem arises as to what kind of glue to use............... epoxy ?The eventual use will be for a crossbow with a split limb configuration.

    Chaz
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    Re: Prod Thought

    Post by Geezer on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:31 pm

    Chaz: This may depend a lot on the quality of your materials. Lots of plywood isn't entirely consistent... there may be voids between laters of veneer. I know that 'marine-grade' plywood, f'rinstance, is very carefully made without voids (and including anti-fungisides that you might not want to deal with) whereas ordinary commercial stuff is made to a lesser standard. So yeah, the laminated plywood MIGHT work, if you've got good stuff.
    As far as pvc is concerned I know some folk have made passable prods from it, but Personally, I just shake my head in amazement.
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    Re: Prod Thought

    Post by Geezer on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:32 pm

    Make that 'layers', not 'laters' silly old codger. Geezer

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    Re: Prod Thought

    Post by chaz on Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:43 pm

    Hey Geezer,

    Actually the plywood came from some Ikea furniture and seems to be of a high end quality with very thin plys and in my opinion void of voids ( an empty play on words),and as stated, to be laminated with the pvc, however I have my doubts of how pvc glue would work against the wood, thus the question of what kind of glue .... epoxy ? This is just an experimental effort with materials on hand ( with the exception of the glue) and probably a feeble effort to think out of the box as if I have nothing todo. Would epoxy be compatible with pvc as well as the wood and still remain pliable?

    Chaz

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    Re: Prod Thought

    Post by chaz on Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:52 pm

    Geezer,

    Don't beat yourself up on typos and don't look to closely at my post.

    CODGER ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, GREAT WORD,,,,,,,,,,,,,, use it my self.

    Chaz
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    ferdinand
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    Re: Prod Thought

    Post by ferdinand on Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:28 pm

    IKEA and 'high end quality' in the same sentence! lol!

    chaz
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    Re: Prod Thought

    Post by chaz on Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:39 pm

    Ferdi ,

    Point well taken! The main issue is with what glue to use . Other than that please excuse the topic. Probably should not have posted it. If someone knows how to delete it please do so.

    Thanks Chaz
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    Todd the archer
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    Re: Prod Thought

    Post by Todd the archer on Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:48 pm

    Regular epoxy is too brittle and won't withstand the flexing required. Bow making epoxy is a different formula made for that purpose. I have used J-B weld to glue some PVC overlays on wood syahs but don't how it would work for your appication. I think (don't know for sure) PVC might work as a belly material but not sure as a backing. I have seen and used myself fiberglass mesh drywall tape (3 layers) glued with titebond glue as a backing material.

    Really fun to experiment but don't get your hopes up too high. But if you have the time and materials why not give it a try.

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    Re: Prod Thought

    Post by B.Cheers on Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:49 pm

    Bow makers use a special clear epoxy resin called EA-40 since it spreads on easily to create a thin film but i know you can get the same effect with normal epoxy resin mixed with methylated spirits which also reduces air pockets when fiber-glassing since the methylated spirits carry's the epoxy into the fiberglass then evaporates.


    chaz
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    Re: Prod Thought

    Post by chaz on Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:25 am

    Todd and B.

    Thanks. Got hold of Bingham Projects ......... glue is enroute. I'm pretty hard headed for an old goat.

    Chaz
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    Re: Prod Thought

    Post by Zardoz on Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:23 pm

    PVC does not stick well to anything, including epoxy. The way pvc cement works is by solvent welding it together. Even if you rough up the pvc, it will not take much flexing before it separates from the wood.

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    Re: Prod Thought

    Post by chaz on Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:21 pm

    Zardoz

    Thanks for your input .......... I'm well aware of how pvc is normally stuck together and know the pvc primer and cement won't work on wood (been in the construction industry almost 40 years)........that's why I was asking about glues to adhere it to wood, never needed to do that before, thought maybe someone else might have already been there done that. It's all an experiment at this point. Like I noted these materials are layin' around and I just had a hankerin' to try something .....may be good or not so good. Eventually the results will be revealed ...............probably findout.... should just use fiberglass material for bowyers. I'll sure piddle with it before my head winds up in a punch bowl.

    Cheers to all, Chaz
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    Re: Prod Thought

    Post by shiloh on Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:27 pm

    Hi chaz,

    rough up the pvc then use Gorilla brand super glue, it has plasticizers in it, use that to stick it to the ply wood prod then wrap the whole thing together with some jute or hemp cord.

    I`ve experimented with baltic birch ply, very high quality and dense, made one prod and it came apart on full draw, though I didn`t back or wrap it with anything, plus my tillering skills are still pretty fresh.


    Good luck with your experiment, let us know how it turns out, you might be on to something if this works.

    Cheers
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    Re: Prod Thought

    Post by Zardoz on Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:33 pm

    I said that the epoxy will not hold onto the pvc. I did not say to use pvc cement to hold it to the wood. I should have been more clear.

    chaz
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    Re: Prod Thought

    Post by chaz on Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:03 pm

    Shilo

    Thanks, you are probably right that it should have a wrap on it ......I'm sure it'll be one if those evolving projects ...........for me it'll be fun . Sounds like you likewise are a venturous sort.

    Chaz

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