The Arbalist Guild

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Crossbows - Everything about Building, Modding, and Using your Crossbow Gear

Latest topics

» Ball shooting Crossbows worth the bother
by c sitas Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:34 pm

» Chu Ko Nu - repeating chinese crossbow
by c sitas Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:30 am

» Skew of tiller
by drawknife Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:18 am

» tiller desgin
by crusader Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:37 am

» Want to build modern target crossbow
by ora8i Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:20 pm

» starting a 1400's replica
by tghsmith Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:25 am

» New Medieval just about finished
by Dark Factor Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:41 am

» How do I tune this
by stuckinthemud1 Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:14 am

» Plans and materials for my first build
by c sitas Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:39 am

» Bolt rest
by stuckinthemud1 Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:24 pm

» Collotiere a Charavines crossbow
by stuckinthemud1 Sun Jun 06, 2021 2:25 pm

» ash lath and pin-lock crossbow
by stuckinthemud1 Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:56 am

» Late medieval tournament distances?
by stuckinthemud1 Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:20 am

» Cutting delrin straight by hand?
by kenh Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:24 pm

» Other forums like this one?
by stuckinthemud1 Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:23 am

» new find in china, terra cotta warrior site
by tghsmith Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:42 am

» Crossbow Books
by Andy. Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:46 pm

» 95lb ancient crossbow shot faster than 960lb medieval
by Fangbows Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:36 pm

» best type of horn to use..
by kenh Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:16 pm

» re-introduction
by tghsmith Sun Mar 07, 2021 3:15 pm

» 4 fletch question
by 8fingers Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:14 am

» fix bolts
by MPDVM Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:40 pm

» Reverse draw compound bow build
by c sitas Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:20 pm

» New Build for 2020
by Gnome Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:19 am

» Spanning bench ideas
by stuckinthemud1 Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:07 pm


+3
kenh
Geezer
Saxon Violence
7 posters

    Hybrid Arrow/Bolts Possible?

    Saxon Violence
    Saxon Violence
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows

    Posts : 5
    Join date : 2013-08-11
    Age : 64
    Location : Sovereign Nation of Indiana

    Hybrid Arrow/Bolts Possible? Empty Hybrid Arrow/Bolts Possible?

    Post by Saxon Violence Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:06 am

    I was looking at the Bolt Quivers over on "Crossbows.net". They hold 30-35 Bolts comfortably and accessibly.

    I think if I was putting together a Medieval INCH Bag (I ain't Never Comin' Home) the large number of Bolts—compared to a comparable sized Quiver of Arrows might weigh on my Crossbow/Bow decision making.

    But come now, let us reason together...

    Crossbows have the Power and unless you're an accomplished Archer, they have the Accuracy...

    But Bows have the edge when multiple targets at close range are encountered—that would probably be Humans.

    But I have seen some fairly powerful—30-40 pound—"Mini-Bows" with short draws and a strung length of about 30".

    Is it conceivable that a Brooding Archer could contrive to make a—O say, 150 Pound Crossbow for General use...

    Design his Bolts a bit (5" to 6") longer than they strictly needed to be (They'd just stick out the front a bit...)

    Carry a small but powerful mini-bow that could use the Crossbow Bolts to relatively good effect at close (inside 20 yards) range? 

    I don't suppose that anyone ever did it.

    It might not be the very greatest idea...

    {Yes, I admit it, I write Fiction, Damn it!}

    But is it conceivable the system could bee made to work well enough that a determined person might stick with it?

    Thanks!

    Saxon Violence
    Geezer
    Geezer
    Master Crossbowyer
    Master Crossbowyer

    Posts : 1194
    Join date : 2010-01-12
    Age : 73
    Location : Austin, Texas, USA

    Hybrid Arrow/Bolts Possible? Empty Re: Hybrid Arrow/Bolts Possible?

    Post by Geezer Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:35 pm

    A crossbow with an effective bolt-clamp can be made to shoot any length arrow you want.  The problem would be shooting bolts/arrows with nocks in the back.  Crossbow strings tend to be fat whereas bowstrings tend to be thinner.  You could make your bolts with a large-ish crescent cut in the back that would accomodate a crossbow string, but they would be harder to keep on a handbow... not impossible, just harder, with that broad, shallow nock in place of a narrow clip-on one. You'd have to hold your bolt/arrow in place with your fingers... which is do-able, just more trouble, and would probably result in slightly slower loading
    And of course longer bolts are heavier, hence go slower, so there would be some loss in efficiency with an all-purpose bolt.
    The underlying problem is: all-purpose weapons tend to do most everything poorly.  The trick is to make your weapon do some or most things rather well. 
      As for mini-bows, historically there have been bows made in all sizes.  And that's true for crossbows as well as handbows.  Chinese crossbows, f'rinstance seem to have had rather long, recurve prods.  I daresay one could remove such a prod from its stock and use it as a hand-bow when necessary... assuming you had the strength to pull it.  So no, it's not possible... but possible not very practical. 
    As for use of such things in a story... stories don't have to be practical but they do have to be plausible.  That's another kettle of fish altogether.
    Geezer
    Geezer
    Geezer
    Master Crossbowyer
    Master Crossbowyer

    Posts : 1194
    Join date : 2010-01-12
    Age : 73
    Location : Austin, Texas, USA

    Hybrid Arrow/Bolts Possible? Empty Re: Hybrid Arrow/Bolts Possible?

    Post by Geezer Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:37 pm

    Sorry, I meant to say:  Not Impossible, just not very practical.  Geezer
    avatar
    kenh
    Crossbow Junkie

    I live here!


    Crossbow JunkieI live here!

    Posts : 846
    Join date : 2012-08-03
    Age : 73
    Location : Living Aboard a Sailboat in Fort Myers, FL

    Hybrid Arrow/Bolts Possible? Empty Re: Hybrid Arrow/Bolts Possible?

    Post by kenh Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:44 pm

    I've seen one action design that allows at least a 100# prod to fire conventionally nocked arrows.  It was designed by Nick T., The Backyard Bowyer, and major proponent of PVC archery.  You can see the design here  http://backyardbowyer.com/  and in his multi-part build-along on Youtube.  The action is quite ingenious and there's no reason it couldn't be ramped up a bit to handle heavier draw prods in the 150#-200# range.  As far as portability, the design could be put on any number of tiller designs of varying compactness.

    I agree with Geezer that all-purpose weapons do many things at best mediocre.  My INCH bag will differ from yours depending on what you envision doing 'out there'; how your outdoor skills compare to mine; and where, geographically, you live. Mainly living off the land?  Living plus combat?  Tropical or temperate?  Deep woods, open lands, or patchy woodlands?  Gotta define your terms somewhat.  I live aboard a sailboat on the Gulf Coast of Florida.  My bug-out bag has a completely different set of gear than your mid-west patchy farmland gear.  I need to survive in a saline marine and estuarian nearly-tropical climate.  You, in Indiana, need to survive in a mixture of woodlands and farmlands where it gets cold enough to freeze water.  I have a LOT more wilderness of varying kinds around me than you do.
    hullutiedemies
    hullutiedemies
    Workshop Savvy

    Did you see my tool collection?


    Workshop SavvyDid you see my tool collection?

    Posts : 184
    Join date : 2012-07-03
    Location : Fennoscandia

    Hybrid Arrow/Bolts Possible? Empty Re: Hybrid Arrow/Bolts Possible?

    Post by hullutiedemies Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:11 am

    Geezer wrote: You'd have to hold your bolt/arrow in place with your fingers... which is do-able, just more trouble, and would probably result in slightly slower loading
    You mean faster.
    Effectively this is a Comanche/Apache nock.
    Bulbous nocks and finger pinch draw are characteristical for Plains Indian horsebows. They have reputation as rapid shooters.

    One book to look for is Jim Hamms "Bows & Arrows of the Native American". It has build-along instructuctions for buffalo bows that would make decent long drawing medium weight crossbow-prods as such.

    War Song
    War Song
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows

    Posts : 31
    Join date : 2013-11-20

    Hybrid Arrow/Bolts Possible? Empty Re: Hybrid Arrow/Bolts Possible?

    Post by War Song Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:01 pm

    Sorry to bring up an old thread, but has anyone tried gluing/wrapping a small neodymium magnet in the bowstring, and using metal butted bolts? In essence, a magnetic nock.
    Todd the archer
    Todd the archer
    Crossbow Junkie

    I live here!


    Crossbow JunkieI live here!

    Posts : 581
    Join date : 2010-02-25
    Age : 59
    Location : sellersville,pa.

    Hybrid Arrow/Bolts Possible? Empty Re: Hybrid Arrow/Bolts Possible?

    Post by Todd the archer Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:23 am

    Already been done. Here is a video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfKwkWrnqoA

    Todd
    War Song
    War Song
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows

    Posts : 31
    Join date : 2013-11-20

    Hybrid Arrow/Bolts Possible? Empty Re: Hybrid Arrow/Bolts Possible?

    Post by War Song Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:59 pm

    Todd the archer wrote:Already been done. Here is a video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfKwkWrnqoA

    Todd
    Hah, they actually tried to patent a magnet on a string?

    Given what I know about archery, a nock helps increase arrow speed by prevent early release of the arrow from the string before it is fully accelerated by the movement of the limbs. Are crossbows affected by this issue as well?
    Todd the archer
    Todd the archer
    Crossbow Junkie

    I live here!


    Crossbow JunkieI live here!

    Posts : 581
    Join date : 2010-02-25
    Age : 59
    Location : sellersville,pa.

    Hybrid Arrow/Bolts Possible? Empty Re: Hybrid Arrow/Bolts Possible?

    Post by Todd the archer Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:10 pm

    If an arrow gets ahead of the string it would be because the string is slowing down and if that is true a nock that is too tight would only slow the arrow more.

    Todd
    avatar
    8fingers
    Workshop Savvy

    Did you see my tool collection?


    Workshop SavvyDid you see my tool collection?

    Posts : 200
    Join date : 2011-04-06
    Location : Chetwynd, BC, Canada

    Hybrid Arrow/Bolts Possible? Empty Re: Hybrid Arrow/Bolts Possible?

    Post by 8fingers Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:47 pm

    Why not imbed your neo magnet just ahead of the nut,  with a bit of ferrous metal on the shaft.
      What about canting and short stroking your crossbow? Would require a hybrid rest/bolt at the front end. A Penobscot style prod could be a compromise. A long main prod with a shorter prod stacked a few inches in front of the main prod and linked to the main prod tips with secondary strings. Cut these strings and you have a lower power bow you could draw quickly by hand.

    Sponsored content

    Hybrid Arrow/Bolts Possible? Empty Re: Hybrid Arrow/Bolts Possible?

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:17 am