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    Fast crossbows with magazines

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    Post by Blade sword on Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:11 pm

    I wonder if there is any practical design for a somewhat fast re-cocking (think like a bolt action rifle), with a good power and with a magazine
    I know the chinese chokonu but everyone knows these sort of "crossbows" were weak and not intended for long range shooting, they were defensive weapons with poison bolts.

    The fast recocking systems I know:
    Manual
    Lever action (with push or pull systems
    Pump action

    Powered
    CO2
    Electric

    For the mags I Only know the stacks (top feds and bottom feds with spring) and revolver type.

    Are they hard to conceive and is there other type of magazine system that are workable and even better a magazine that can keep the fletching in a good state like in the revolver type as the one I saw had rotating ramps which was an ingenious system.

    What's your thoughts what's the ideas that can come up and I will show a 3d model soon about what I'm doing about a system I conceived myself but the 3D model wouldn't be full mechanized it will have most of the mechanism and yeah that's all about it.

    And PS: sorry if my english is terrible Neutral
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    Post by Geezer on Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:29 pm

    Geezer here:  Well pooo, I had a note concerning repeating crossbows but it disappeared, so I'll just try again.
    Back about 10 years ago, I knew a guy named Floyd Stevens, who lived near Austin Texas.  Floyd had a good working design for a 5-shot repeating crossbow with a built-in pulley system for reducing draw weight.  The bolts fit into an internal box-magazine, prods were standard Barnett fiberglass laths, interchangeable from 75 to 175 lb.  There was a large-size repeater, using a standard prod, and a small, elegant pistol-type that used a smaller prod.  I believe the larger bow was used in an adventure-type movie filmed in the Phillipines.  I am reasonably certain Floyd patented his work, which means drawings should be available through the US patent office.  Furthermore, it's my impression somebody bought Floyd's patents, but that production never took place.  Anyhow, a thorough search by some enterprising scholar might turn Floyd or his work up.  Certainly the pistol-bow in particular was a beautiful work of art, all made in sculptured aluminum.   I wish I had it now... and yes, I've got pics of it somewhere, but an hour's digging thru my photos haven't turned up anything yet.  If I stumble across them, I'll post to this forum.  Till then have fun stormin' da castle!  Geezer
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    Post by Geezer on Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:36 pm

    Floyd Stephens, Austin Texas, patent for repeating crossbow, 1987.  A quick search will find this... note it is NOT George Stevens of Arkansas... he's a different guy with an altogether different bow.  Geezer
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    Post by hullutiedemies on Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:35 am

    Strip comb is one possible feed system.
    Fast crossbows with magazines Repekampa
    Here seen on an experimental percussion springald scale model. Similar magazine could be mounted on normal crossbow with lifting bolt-clip and push-pin feeder. Strip can run parallel to string making a compact "2-dimensional" device.

    Also loaded combs could be carried in quivier for a quick reload.

    One recocking system to consider is cranck-shaft with low-gear transmission.
    So pulling the bow and returning the carriage is done with one continuous motion.
    If handle has turn radius half of power stroke, bow is cocked with 6:1 ratio with just two turns of handle. A flywheel could be incorporated for smoother sustainet fire.
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    Post by Blade sword on Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:59 pm

    Interesting stuff here, I would like to see more of those crossbows Smile
    I searched a bit the Floyd Stefens pistol crossbow and it's quite an interesting design with pull back cord to cock the bow. quite interesting how it was built inside the frame in order to reduce the effort needed to cock the crossbow pistol. I would like to see more :)even the homemade stuff as I came here pretty much because I searched some particular crossbow designs and I landed here Very Happy
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    Post by Blade sword on Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:01 am

    I will post my own design BTW
    Fast crossbows with magazines Multishot_crossbow_wip_by_warkom-d6ksc15

    It's a lever action system, the cam design is very simplistic here.
    The magazine system works with a bolt raiser and a magazine that "pivots" (slide) from left to right.
    It's actually not complete but that's pretty much it
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    Post by Geezer on Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:13 am

    Geezer here:  I like the idea of deploying the magazine in the same plane as the prod.  After all, that area has to be kept clear for proper operation anyhow, so having the magazine in the same line, but a little lower makes perfectly good sense, at least so long as the spanning mechanism doesn't interfere.  Good solution for the magazine.  Could it be made a bit more compact?  Then you could increase the number of bolts if necessary.
     I like it.
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    Post by kenh on Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:24 pm

    Same concept as the "Harmonica" action rifle invented by John Moses Browning back in the 1850s or 60s.  No reason that the bolts can't almost be touching or even overlapping fletching as long as they strip out of the clip easily.
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    Post by Blade sword on Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:53 pm

    It can be made a little more compact but only a little you can basically gain about 2 arrows for the same size, and yeah this is a very similar idea behind the harmonica gun, the bolts can be easily stripped out but won't fall by their own weight due to the restrainers on the magazine.
    I only made it this large space for aesthetic reasons to be honest and because I wanted to avoid resizing the mag during its construction Very Happy
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    Post by Geezer on Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:54 pm

    Surprise-surprise:  Geezer here with some amazing news.  I've spent the last couple of hours browsing through thousands of crossbow pics on my computer, and thanks to my manly diligence, I have finally come up with four snapshots of the legendary Floyd Stevens repeating pistol crossbow (patented @ 1989) I had the pistol in my shop for about two weeks, thanks to Floyd's generosity, and for once I exhibited the good sense to take pics.  So if I can figure out how to attach the pics, I'll include them here. 
    The crossbow accepts any Barnett prod, and loads five short bolts or darts, into a magazine in the bottom.  The spanning mechanism has a slider actuated by a rope-starter type handle, with pulleys for mechanical advantage.  It looks great and shot quite nicely, at least at lower poundages.  I believe one of his larger, carbine-sized repeaters showed up in an adventure-movie filmed in the Phillippines, @ 1990.  So here goes nothin' to get the pictures loaded.  Geezer
    Well durn: I can't make heads or tails of that... Anybody who wants the pics... just send me an e mail:  iolo@crossbows.net.  I'll attach the pics and send 'em pronto.  Geezer.
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    Post by War Song on Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:33 pm

    Interesting topic. Here is a system I came up with for the occasion:


    Fast crossbows with magazines AXIALMAGAZINECROSSBOW_zpsbf8c27eb
    Fast crossbows with magazines 1DrawingCrossbow_zpsdb06cc78
    Fast crossbows with magazines 2BoltFeeding_zpse5412217
    Fast crossbows with magazines 3ReadytoFire_zps456c6f22

    Fast crossbows with magazines AXIALMAGAZINECROSSBOW_zpsbf8c27eb.jpg
    The idea is similar to the tubular magazine on the old Martini-Henry rifle. The stock would need to be made from two boards with plenty of space in between for the components. A normal locking nut might also get in the way, so some redesigning there as well.

    A triple rail keeps the bolt vanes in line, the bolts being fed behind each other axially like cartridges in a firearm tube magazine. The magazine sits at a slight angle behind a tilting rail, which tilts down and allows a bolt to feed when the draw string is pulled behind the locking nut *via a slide armature. 

    A back stop, like the one drawn above, would be needed to keep bolts feeding one at a time and to prevent them from falling out completely.

    Everything is done in the same action you would do while drawing a normal crossbow, just that you need to make sure the string engages the slide armature fully to feed a bolt. Since the crossbow is usually pointing downwards when one draws a crossbow, the force of gravity should be enough to feed the bolts - you can try adding a magazine spring if you want, but with bolts being so long I don't see how that's feasible.

    Problem with this design is limited capacity due to length of crossbow bolts, so you wouldn't be fitting many unless you use very short bolts (or darts). Maybe around three proper-sized bolts per magazine without your crossbow looking too lop-size. Alternatively, you can have the magazine detachable and make a few so that you can reload quickly.
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    Post by Geezer on Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:36 am

    Actually the rear-feeding tubular magazine is reminiscent of Spencer rifles of the 1860s, as well as modern Browning .22 sporting rifles, both of which load from a tubular magazine in the butt. Butt-length will always be an issue for long-projectiles.  Perhaps you could make the magazine longer by letting it overhang your shoulder, like an anti-tank rocket.  Or better yet, adapt your tubular magazine for bullet-bows.  I think a repeating bullet-bow with built- in magazine would be a blast.  Load up with ball-bearings, pistol-balls or even marbles, and go smash some tin-cans!  Geezer.
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    Post by War Song on Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:55 am

    Geezer wrote:Actually the rear-feeding tubular magazine is reminiscent of Spencer rifles of the 1860s, as well as modern Browning .22 sporting rifles, both of which load from a tubular magazine in the butt. Butt-length will always be an issue for long-projectiles.  Perhaps you could make the magazine longer by letting it overhang your shoulder, like an anti-tank rocket.  Or better yet, adapt your tubular magazine for bullet-bows.  I think a repeating bullet-bow with built- in magazine would be a blast.  Load up with ball-bearings, pistol-balls or even marbles, and go smash some tin-cans!  Geezer.
    Yeah, I would think bullet projectiles would be optimal for any autoloading mechanism on a crossbow, but the literature regarding stonebows seem to state a lower performance with that sort of ammunition.

    But according to the physics,that shouldn't be the case as long as the bullet is as heavy as a conventional bolt, hence maintaining good projectile efficiency. An all steel rod bolt can probably be decently short but dense enough for that purpose. Lead weights can be cast on them for further balancing.
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    Post by Blade sword on Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:26 am

    Interesting system shown here although you can use a revolver system like the SRM 1216 shotgun and so you can pack more bolts as you need to swap lines in order to keep the design compact and get a good mag cap.
    The other way is having a reverse mechanism if the front of the crossbow allows it.

    Here is some "live action" of my crossbow, though the bolts on the mag stays, but you can see how it's supposed to work though

    Fast crossbows with magazines FCQFP
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    Post your pics here geezer ;)please.

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