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    Brass Tube and epoxy putty roller nut

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    Post by fiddler49 Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:54 pm

    I just took a piece of 1 1/2 inch brass sink drain tubing, 17 gauge, and cut off a short 1 1/2 inch wide piece with a tubing cutter, then drilled two holes a 1/4 inch wide where the claws would be through both sides of tubing. I then cut 2 short pieces of 1 /4 inch mild steel rod and put them threw the holes as reenforcement for the claws. I also drilled one more hole opposite the claws for a hardened piece of allen wrench. I then took 2/3 rds of a tube of epoxy putty and filled in the center of the brass tube. I pushed the short piece of allen wrench into the bottom hole so the flat side will eventually face the tickler. I'll finish cutting out the claws and ticker slot next week. I'll test out this nut in my 600 lb cross bow that at the moment has a nice moose roller nut and let you guys know how it works. The brass tubbing is exactly 1 1/2 out side dia. This method is very easy to do and could use a liquid epoxy or acryillic as a filler. I'll post pics soon. cheers fiddler49


    Last edited by fiddler49 on Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:59 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added to title)
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    Post by Hermit Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:35 am

    Holeeeeeeeee!!!.............600lbs draw weight?,that's not a crossbow,that's an artillery piece!!.One thing though,if it works well,(and I'm guessing it just might)it'll be the final word on epoxy nuts!
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    Post by kenh Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:18 pm

    Verrrrrryyyyy interesting.  Looking forward to reading the 'field trial' notes!
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    Post by jaeger22 Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:33 am

    Fiddler, this is an interesting experiment. I assume you have a captured nut type and not a through axle correct? It MAY work for a captured nut but I can't imagine it holding up to that weight with an axle. You might also want to consider stuffing in a bunch of fiberglass cloth in the tube before you add the epoxy. That would make it MUCH stronger. You can get it at any boat supply store. 
    For example in fiberglass boats and in bow limbs, it is the glass that takes all the load. The epoxy just holds it in place. When a load is applied, the epoxy gives a bit right away until the fibers take up the load. But the fibers prevent the load from stretching the epoxy more than it can handle. Together they make a great material. Separate, not so much. . . . .
    Good luck with your experiment. Please post your results. And Pictures!!!
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    Post by Hermit Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:12 am

    For interest,there are vehicle body repair resin based products out there that have glass fibres added and should be available in your local auto parts store
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    Post by amir Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:09 pm

    so epoxy putty after all.....back to my old question....why not make the whole nut out of putty?
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    Post by Gnome Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:04 am

    I think the product Hermit describes is fiberglass reinforced body filler, meant for auto body repairs requiring more strength than regular putty fillers. I got pretty familiar with this stuff trying to plug up rusted out fenders in my old muscle car before I finally had that mess towed away, and I've used it on occasion for non-automotive related purposes. There are a few different brands, Bondo being one readily available most places, but I prefer Tiger Hair from Evercoat. Before curing the stuff has a consistency like overcooked collard greens. Don't eat it, though.

    It's designed of course to be laid out in thin coats, sanding between coats for better adhesion, with the only control over the direction of the grain of the fibers being how you drag your application trowel over it laying it out. So it works pretty well for spreading out a shell over an existing structure, or possibly for Fiddler's intent, filling a cavity in a structure that will bear most of the stress.

    To form a roller nut entirely out of it as Amir suggests is possible, I think, but making a good one, capable of handling higher than LARP level stress, would require a fair amount of work. I would want to cut and file and sand the finished piece as little as possible, leaving all the embedded fibers intact to provide the greatest possible strength. Perhaps some kind of press mold would work? The mold would need to be as close to the final shape as possible.sturdy enough to press the fiberglass and work out any air bubbles, yet be able to remove the finished piece from. Working the air bubbles out would be a challenge, due to the consistency of the filler. And molding the steel sear into place? Hmm...

    Hey Fiddler, how about some pictures? Any project that repurposes bits from the plumbing isle is of interest to me!
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    Post by Hermit Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:27 am

    .you have it gnome,the product I used was 'Kitty hair',likely the same as 'Tiger hair
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    Post by Geezer Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:58 am

    Aaaaarrrgh, roller nuts made of compressed epoxy putty! Old geezer pulls out the remainder of his very thin hair and has to be led away by men in white coats. "Why brothers, WHY, when there are so many Good alternatives???? ARRRRRRGH!
    ok, I feel all better now. Will you pretty-please take this sleeveless coat off and let me go home? 
    love, Geezer.
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    Post by Gnome Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:23 pm

    Hermit,
    Kitty Hair is supposedly a less robust form of Tiger Hair, as the names would imply. Not sure of the actual difference, I seem to recall that the Kitty Hair had finer fibers.
    Geezer,
    Sorry to have any part in sending you over the edge! I'm just one of those dangerous people who gets all excited about the "how" and spends too little time pondering the "why." I highly doubt I would ever try it. If reinforced auto body filler was my best choice available for making a roller nut, I'd just make a skane lock bow instead.
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    Post by Geezer Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:28 pm

    Actually I knew a guy years ago who made a number of roller-nuts from cast epoxy putty.  He put something in for a sear of course... a nail or some such IIRC.  And they worked pretty well on lightweight bows (SCA combat bows, @ 600 ip) It sounds like the Tigerhair/kittyhair product would be safer for stronger bows, assuming one was stuck somewhere north of the arctic circle with zombies moaning outside the door.  And yes, I do understand the perverse desire to make cool stuff out of nothing... but it still makes me pull out my hair, and there's so little left.  Carry on lads, pay no attention to the jibbering wreck in the corner.
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    Post by Hermit Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:40 pm

    One thing that should be considered,is that while some of us have the luxury of extensive material availabjlty,and reasonable,,sometimes more than reasonable shop facilities,not to mention experience in wood and metal working,more than a few don't.Someone who wants to build a crossbow,but doesn't enjoy these advantages would likely want to know about,any kind of method that is simple and cheap.That is why this kind of brainstorming is good for this forum.Not only does it get people thinking about better and simpler ways of crossbow construction,it has to result in greater interest in building them.Sooner or later,someone is going to come up with an idea which will benefit us all.The R.D.T. thread on the forum shows that.Since I have been a member,this forum has shown me that it has interest in all things crossbow,no matter how esoteric,and that to me shows a forum that is healthy,and will be around for a long time.............
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    Post by Hermit Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:45 pm

    And Geezer,I,m with you on the trigger mechanism materials thing,but I've also learned that there are many ways to skin a cat............................
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    Post by chaz Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:25 pm

    Geezer,

      Well stated,,,,,,,,,,,, maybe some ideas are best kept under ones hat ................. lest it be recognized as nonsense..............however some ideas, even my own are quite amusing not only to me but others as well

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    Post by chaz Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:48 pm

    Actually making reference to one of my early posts considering making a roller nut from a que ball

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    Post by Hermit Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:32 am

    why not make a nut entirely from epoxy putty?,my take on that Amir,is that it is unsuitable.
    It doesn't have the necessary strength or wear restistance.There are readily available far better alternatives.
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    Post by Wargasm Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:40 pm

    y'all know you can order brass and bronze solid bar online right, easy to shape with a file, if a bit time consuming, and I think it would look pretty period correct.

    http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=7827&step=4&showunits=inches&id=301&top_cat=850
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    Post by hullutiedemies Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:55 am

    Gnome wrote:
    I would want to cut and file and sand the finished piece as little as possible, leaving all the embedded fibers intact to provide the greatest possible strength. Perhaps some kind of press mold would work? The mold would need to be as close to the final shape as possible.

    Based on experience, I would recomment exactly opposite approach.
    Especially if only one nut is needed it is much easier to get good quality cast if one just concentrates making a flawless cylinder of solid plastic. Thin extensions like claws are where air bubbles happen.
    Making the mold is easier- only a piece of suitable tube is needed. And no lathe is recuired.

    And shaping claws and sear fittings to correct measurements with hacksaw and files is easier afterwards, when the nut can be fitted to the lock.


    Direction of reinforcing fiber is not important as strain is shearing and compressing rather than bending. Quality of the resin casting is more important than fiber orientation.

    Fine fiber lint - cotton or flax is healthier and nicer to use than fiberglass- can be mixed to clay like epoxy putty by spreading and folding it a few dozen times.

    The plastic resin used should have good compression strength and wear resistance.

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