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2 posters

    Ordo pro balistari

    John Edgerton
    John Edgerton
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows


    Posts : 18
    Join date : 2010-01-14
    Location : Newark, California

    Ordo pro balistari Empty Ordo pro balistari

    Post by John Edgerton Sun Aug 28, 2016 3:27 pm

    I hope that someone might be able to assist me in locating a source for the document mentioned below. I am hoping to run a crossbow competition next year based on rules for pre 1600 archery competitions.

    Would it be possible to send me a copy of the document, if possible either in English or modern Italian, so that I can use it to set up the rules for next years competition. I will credit you and the State Archive of Lucca as the source. If it is not possible to obtain the entire document, could you translate the sections pertaining the rules for shooting and scoring that competition.

    If you have access to other pre-1600 crossbow competition rules, I would greatly appreciate them as well.

    I have located some online rules for the contemporary Italian crossbow competitions held by various cites in Italy, but I am not sure how Medieval authentic they are.

    Thank you for any help you can give.

    John R Edgerton
    Newark, California
    Sirjon1@pacbell.net


    http://www.compagniabalestrierilucca.it ... -balestra/

    "The same Castruccio Castracani Antelminelli models (1290-1330) Lord of Lucca 1305-1330 wanted it to be an award destined to archers more capable in order to attract young people to the exercise of such a weapon deemed "to defensionem strumentum aptissimum". From there the organization of a Palio is a short step, and certainly was already played in the city, on the occasion of major holidays, since the end of 1300. At the State Archive of Lucca is still preserved a document "ordo pro balistari "dated 26 June 1443 which will provide all the rules for the dispute of the Crossbow Palio. The document is very important because it was found to be the oldest regulation for shooting competitions now existing in Europe! The Palio of San Paolino, still is played according to the rules written six centuries ago by our ancestors even if, for technical reasons, have had to make some minor changes that still does not leave to alter the meanings."
    septua
    septua
    Tinkerer

    If there is a will, there is a way.


    TinkererIf there is a will, there  is a way.


    Posts : 76
    Join date : 2012-12-02
    Location : Ohio

    Ordo pro balistari Empty Re: Ordo pro balistari

    Post by septua Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:44 pm

    John
    Here is link for a PDF in Italian for rules and dimensions of the target range, shooting bench for 3 shooters. This is not a Lucca document. In this case the target is designed for cluster competition where the competitor’s bolts pile up and the closest to center is the hero. The distance is 36m and I believe the maximum draw weight is 600kg. Spanning is done with a cranequin. There are other competitions at something like 18m. These bows are spanned with the goat’s foot lever.
     
    http://www.societaterzierimassetani.it/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/RegolamentoFIB2015.pdf

    Tom
    John Edgerton
    John Edgerton
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows


    Posts : 18
    Join date : 2010-01-14
    Location : Newark, California

    Ordo pro balistari Empty Re: Ordo pro balistari

    Post by John Edgerton Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:52 am

    Tom
    Thank you for the information. I have seen the rules for the Federation of Italian Crossbowmen before. I just found a source for an article on the "Ordo pro Balistari" and crossbow competitions in Lucca, which I have had ordered for me.

    It is on Amazon at: https://www.amazon.it/balestra-Balestra-Medioevo-Estratto-lucchesi/dp/B00M0MVPB4

    While looking for that I came across an online article that questions the period authenticity of the crossbows and benches used in the modern Italian crossbow competitions. See it at:  
    http://www.historicalucense.altervista.org/Balestre/articolo.html

    I had wondered before about the bows and benches used, because I had never seen any images of period examples of these.

    Thank you

    John
    septua
    septua
    Tinkerer

    If there is a will, there is a way.


    TinkererIf there is a will, there  is a way.


    Posts : 76
    Join date : 2012-12-02
    Location : Ohio

    Ordo pro balistari Empty Re: Ordo pro balistari

    Post by septua Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:57 am

    John
     
    Is there a cost for them to reveal this precious document? It would be interesting to see the amount of standardization in the beginning times. The current state of equipment allows much accuracy but the result of piling on of many competitors bolts to the same target seems like luck.  
    Some of the towns involved in these competitions have photos and videos from past 90 years or so and even in this relatively recent past the equipment and garb have evolved.
     
    Tom


    Last edited by septua on Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:43 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)
    John Edgerton
    John Edgerton
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows


    Posts : 18
    Join date : 2010-01-14
    Location : Newark, California

    Ordo pro balistari Empty Re: Ordo pro balistari

    Post by John Edgerton Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:30 pm

    Tom

    Copies of the rules from 1443 can be found at the Amazon address above.
    septua
    septua
    Tinkerer

    If there is a will, there is a way.


    TinkererIf there is a will, there  is a way.


    Posts : 76
    Join date : 2012-12-02
    Location : Ohio

    Ordo pro balistari Empty Re: Ordo pro balistari

    Post by septua Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:44 pm

    John
     
    When I said them I’m referring to Amazon.it, which told me the document “Ordo pro Balistari” does not exist. I have never used Amazon so it’s my own computer ignorance. “It would be interesting to see the amount of standardization in the beginning times”. To me the document would only be a very interesting curiosity. I’ve been experimenting with current Italian reenactor’s competition sighting method and find that it permits a long open sighting radius combined with ease of adjustment. The two sighting aids they use only for locating the shooters eye and a line or tack attached to the verretta (arrow).
     
    Tom       
    John Edgerton
    John Edgerton
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows


    Posts : 18
    Join date : 2010-01-14
    Location : Newark, California

    Ordo pro balistari Empty Re: Ordo pro balistari

    Post by John Edgerton Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:24 pm

    Tom

    Antonio Romiti wrote an exhaustive essay, The Crossbow and the Crossbow Game in Lucca in the late Middleages (La Balestra ed il giiuoco della balestra a Lucca nel tardo Medioevo), which was published in “Actum Luce” review, year 1, n. 2, Lucca 1972, pages 275-310, in which, besides the historical information found in the archival sources in Lucca, a transcription of the Ordo pro Balistariis dated june 29yh 1443 is provided in appendix, together with a picture of this text integrating the article.

    John

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