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    The Ulrich bow

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    Post by Lightly Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:56 am

    Hi guys! Sorry so long in saying anything here, I get wrapped up at work...

    So, two exciting things! Well, to me anyway, which means, likely to some of you all as well...

    I found these two very nice videos on the Ulrich bow:

    http://82nd-and-fifth.metmuseum.org/cracking-the-code

    I am thrilled by this... I have been planning on making a very nice Ulrich styled bow for some time now, for a friend/client but, I had questions... on materials, measurements, shapes, etc.

    I tried very hard to see the Ulrich bow at the Met, had initial good luck in contacting them, but then, sadly, met a stone wall.
    On the other hand, I had great luck seeing a beautiful bow at the Higgins Museum!  I was able to handle and photograph this German sporting bow for some time, and the fee for this was waived, as I did some repair and consultation on a demo bow they had there, that Geezer had made some years ago for them.

    Anyhoo, these latest video's from the Met, answered some remaining questions I had about the Ulrich, including FINALLY, a look at the butt end to see what shape it was (we THOUGHT it had a cheekpiece, but, it was impossible to tell from the former photos...)
    Great great video and photos... I had been dithering on starting this Ulrich, as I wanted to make it "right", but, felt I did not have enough information to do so...

    Here is the bow build documented, as far as I have got, thus far, on my Flickr. If you click on a photo, most have captions where I explain what I am doing, or, what mistake I just made!
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/swifthoundbows/sets/72157634212273907/

    Take care all;

    Lightly.
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    Post by jack1knife Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:46 am

    Simply amazing.  What kind of bone are you using for the top plates that contact the string / arrow?
    What kind of bone are you using for the round trigger wheel (that holds the string back).... sorry - dont know technical terms yet!

    Love what I am seeing here !!!

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    Post by Geezer Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:11 am

    Geezer here:  Since Lightly is so busy in the shop that she forgets to write, I thought I would answer for her.
     The roller-nut is made of Moose-horn... that's pretty much our favorite in the shop, though Axis Stag is also very good, if you can get a piece big enough... You want the section right where it comes off the critter's head.
         The rectangular reinforcing-blocks (I call them 'lagers') at the edges of the lock-socket are also moose.  The rest of the horn is camel-bone from a mail-order outfit called Orgindia.  Their prices are reasonable and quality is good.  Mostly we buy either 4X1 (inch) or 6X1 (inch) pieces.  You can make your own bone slabs from leg-bones of cattle, but it's such a stinking awful mess, we'd rather buy pre-cut pieces from outside suppliers.
    Any other questions?  Geezer, for Lightly.
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    Post by jack1knife Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:13 am

    Thank you very much.  I may have to do some more investigation before I post another question.
    Thanks for your SWIFT RESPONSE.

    Excellent work!
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    Post by tnetcenter Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:30 pm

    It's going to be a beautiful cross bow when it's done.

    What kind of draw weight are you expecting or building for??

    I know that you are building a period reproduction, but I'm curious:

    What material would you make the roller nut ( and associated assemblies) out of if you weren't building a period bow?   And what kind of draw weights would be appropriate for the material chosen??  I'm assuming metal would be the choice, but if not, what would you use?

    Thanks!
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    Post by kenh Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:10 am

    Most "modern" period builds use 1.5" or a bit larger solid Delrin(tm) dowel for the roller nut. It will handle draw weights of at least 200 pounds.You can get short lengths off Ebay for just a few dollars. Steel or other metal rollers are used, but are considered too heavy and not very efficient in the energy-deliver department.

    If you use the Search function here and search on "Roller Nut Material"  you'll find at least two very good discussions about the various materials used for roller nuts, and their applications.
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    Post by jeep Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:44 am

    What kind of spanning apparatus for this crossbow? goat foot or cranneqin ? it look like crannequin but for 1460 wasn't a bit early? Amazing job on way !!! Are you going to create a composite bow for it (or  it is already drying)
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    Post by Geezer Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:42 pm

    The Ulrich bow is definitely a cranequin bow.  Gafa/goatsfoot bows also use a pin thru the stock, but with a gafa, the pin is only a couple of inches behind the lock.  If the pin is 15 cm back, or if there's a hook on the bottom of the stock about 15 cm back (give or take a bit) you've got a cranequin bow.  Geezer
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    Post by Armbrustier Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:11 am

    Hello Jeep!

    1460 isn't early when it comes to cranequins. The earliest is said to be  seen in a painting from 1373, but I have not seen that painting, and don't know anything more about it.
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    Post by jeep Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:53 am

    Thank Micke for the answer.
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    Post by jeep Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:57 am

    Lightly, what kind of bow are you going to mount on the Ulricht?
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    Post by Armbrustier Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:53 am

    I need to make a correction; I have finally seen that illustration, said to be from 1373, and it's not a cranequin depicted! My guess is still that the cranequins are at least from the early 15th century.
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    Post by Lightly Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:19 am

    Jeep,

    Geezer is right, I spend TOO much time in the shop and not enough checking out this excellent forum!
    I am putting a steel prod on it, as, I thought that taking the next 5 years to learn to make a horn and sinew prod for it might make the client grumpy... and the husband, too... as we both like eating and paying the mortgage!

    I put a 125 steel prod on it, but, the draw length is much shorter, (exactly, or close to) the original. 
    So, we figure, once installed, it was in the high 90's. Which, is fine for the client.

    Me, having some arthritis in this colder weather, and I could not span it to test it when it was done.
    Which was EXTREMELY disappointing, so Geezer got that honor.
    Dang.

    I did put on cranequin pins, as the original, but, she should be able to span it by hand. If not, we'll find her a cranequin! 

    Best!

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    Post by Lightly Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:36 pm

    Armbrustier;

    I REALLY like your avatar... can you link to a photo of the full bow? I am a big fan of that style, and would really love to see a better photo.

    Thanks!

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    Post by stuckinthemud1 Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:35 am

    High Geezer/Lightly,

    I have really enjoyed catching up with this thread, loved the flickr photostream too Lightly, any chance of updating it? Geezer, I don't suppose you can supply a link for Orgindia?  Also, any thoughts on using holly for inlays instead of bone?

    Regards,

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    Post by Lightly Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:25 am

    Yes, I have not updated my Flickr site for far far too long... been too busy actually working on bows!
    If by Orgindia, you mean the bones plates, Geezer gets those online from Amazon, darned it I can remember the vendor, but, you might ask him?
     And, could you clarify what you mean by holly instead of bone? holly wood? or??

    Thanks!

    Best;

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    Post by stuckinthemud1 Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:14 pm

    Hi Lightly,

    Quercus Ilex is the proper name for Holly (wood), just checked Wiki and its common name is Holly, also European Holly. The timber from Holly is particularly dense and almost white (slightly creamy) in colour but it takes detailed carving exceptionally well and is worked with normal wood-carving tools as opposed to the scrapers and burrs needed for bone.

    re Orgindia, Geezer named them as the supplier he uses for bone slabs earlier in your other Ulrich thread but I couldn't find them using 'orgindia' as a search term.

    Regards,

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    Post by Jason D Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:08 pm

    You can find Origindia [url=ww.ebay.com/usr/origindia09]here[/url] it looks like the old website is defunct and they sell through their eBay shop now. I have ordered from them, the material was exactly as described, shipping was fast and reasonably priced, especially considering they were shipping to Canada.
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    Post by phuphuphnik Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:30 pm

    Gee, thanks....
    You just cost me money, they have everything I was looking for.
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