The Arbalist Guild

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Crossbows - Everything about Building, Modding, and Using your Crossbow Gear

Latest topics

» 12th Century Chinese Crossbow Chronographed
by stuckinthemud1 Fri Nov 24, 2023 3:50 pm

» Crossbow Stock
by kenh Tue Oct 31, 2023 6:19 am

» Colletiere a Charavines continuing experiment
by stuckinthemud1 Sat Oct 07, 2023 5:36 am

» Cocking - how
by stuckinthemud1 Thu Aug 03, 2023 4:24 am

» Questions around heavy crossbow lath buildin
by stuckinthemud1 Wed Apr 26, 2023 1:10 am

» Arab Crossbow
by stuckinthemud1 Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:57 am

» prod angle, and lever trigger for sale anyone?
by stuckinthemud1 Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:54 am

» flexible string
by jasper1978 Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:25 am

» [solved]Skane/Lillohus crossbow thread
by stuckinthemud1 Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:44 am

» jens sensfelder
by jasper1978 Wed Mar 08, 2023 11:58 pm

» 400lb Windlass crossbow bolts weight and accuracy shooting high.
by stuckinthemud1 Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:53 pm

» Codex Löffelholz crossbow
by stuckinthemud1 Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:14 pm

» Digitar prodsc
by stuckinthemud1 Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:42 pm

» Troubleshooting
by Andy. Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:29 pm

» Wood Prods
by stuckinthemud1 Fri Dec 30, 2022 12:47 pm

» Colletiere a Charavines crossbow
by stuckinthemud1 Fri Dec 30, 2022 8:54 am

» Simplified Löffelhotz speedloader
by stuckinthemud1 Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:05 pm

» Fiberglass H-bows
by c sitas Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:44 am

» Bad Antler
by drawknife Sat Nov 12, 2022 3:48 am

» Anyone make their own bolts?
by Juniper Mon Oct 17, 2022 8:20 am

» Josef alm in English
by Juniper Sat Oct 15, 2022 4:22 am

» Qin/Han lock drawings
by kenh Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:16 pm

» stirrup dimensions?
by stuckinthemud1 Thu Sep 01, 2022 1:49 pm

» Skane/Lillohus lockbow information needed
by stuckinthemud1 Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:23 am

» need help contacting le musee Dauphinois Grenoble
by stuckinthemud1 Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:22 pm


3 posters

    Making Chinese 240lb Han Crossbow

    avatar
    Fangbows
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows


    Posts : 17
    Join date : 2012-12-01

    Making Chinese 240lb Han Crossbow Empty Making Chinese 240lb Han Crossbow

    Post by Fangbows Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:09 am

    Hi Arbalists,

    I am trying to make a working model of a Chinese Han Dynasty Crossbow


     which are known to have a high powerstroke and medium draw weight (140lbs @28 - 240lbs @28)
    , similar to modern crossbow stats.

    The following are two prods I am interested to use (already own):

    1. 240lb@32" Quad Lam English Longbow as Prod





    2. 140@32 Static Recurve (Fibreglass limbs) as prod



    The latter looks more historically accurate (sinew horn prod too expensive) but the former has a higher draw weight.

    The main challenge is getting the trigger right, does anyone have blueprints or experience with Chinese Han/Qin triggers?

    I am willing to buy them if you are willing to make the triggers

    Modern steel for the trigger is fine.

    This project is inspired by https://historum.com/threads/han-dynasty-crossbow.69030/

    Thank you


    Last edited by Fangbows on Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:49 pm; edited 7 times in total
    avatar
    Fangbows
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows


    Posts : 17
    Join date : 2012-12-01

    Making Chinese 240lb Han Crossbow Empty Re: Making Chinese 240lb Han Crossbow

    Post by Fangbows Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:16 am

    What I am envisioning is something like this but 200lbs@28 , unfortunately I have limited crossbow making skills
    Making Chinese 240lb Han Crossbow Slide19
    experience
    kenh
    kenh
    Crossbow Junkie

    I live here!


    Crossbow JunkieI live here!


    Posts : 883
    Join date : 2012-08-03
    Age : 75
    Location : Living Aboard a Sailboat in Fort Myers, FL

    Making Chinese 240lb Han Crossbow Empty Re: Making Chinese 240lb Han Crossbow

    Post by kenh Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:48 am

    Both of the bows which you suggest using as prods are far too large -- too long -- to go with a Han/Qin crossbow.  The prods were more like 36" long, not 48" or 60".  Long prods would look ridiculous if a replica is what you have in mind.  

    Your best bet is to make a 36" prod using conventional wood/fiberglass laminate bow-building techniques and a simple rubber-band type jig.  Start with a single 72" length of .030 bowbuilding fiberglass from a place like Bingham's Archery Supply or others I can get you a name for, that is 72" long and 1.5" wide.  One or two .07 or .08 wooden lams 72 x 1.5 in the center.  And a quart kit of Smooth-on EA40 epoxy -- not garden variety epoxy -- should do the trick.

    This is not the forum to discuss these building techniques.  Email me and I can get you started if you're interested.

    There are replicas of the Han/Qin action/trigger mechanism which you can find on the Internet.
    avatar
    Fangbows
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows


    Posts : 17
    Join date : 2012-12-01

    Making Chinese 240lb Han Crossbow Empty Re: Making Chinese 240lb Han Crossbow

    Post by Fangbows Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:16 am

    Hi thank you for your sincere reply
    I am interested about making a prod with shorter bow lengths
    The 2nd bow I showed might be fine for my first prototype but since this is a crossbow forum, I'm hoping to get more knowledge on the Chinese trigger for a heavy weight design. I have read Stephen Selby`s book regarding the 3 common designs A, B, C. Its hard to make my first one without sticking to a specific blueprint since every picture I see online is slight different
    kenh
    kenh
    Crossbow Junkie

    I live here!


    Crossbow JunkieI live here!


    Posts : 883
    Join date : 2012-08-03
    Age : 75
    Location : Living Aboard a Sailboat in Fort Myers, FL

    Making Chinese 240lb Han Crossbow Empty Re: Making Chinese 240lb Han Crossbow

    Post by kenh Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:03 pm

    Use the Search mechanism here.  I remember from a few years back that there were a couple of discussions on the Han mechanism with illustrations or a taken apart actin that could be copied and scaled.  

    Another place to check is the Asian Traditional Archery Research Network.  Not the Facebook page but the actual website which is a sort of archive for old 'pre-sound bite' discussions which actually have some depth.  There were similar discussions there as well as builders who replicated the action.

    Found it!  Here's a 15 year old discussion by ATARN Founder Stephen Selby, where he has disassembled an original Han mechanism and photographed the parts against graph paper so that you can copy and scale the images.   If you can't get to the link below, you'll have to join ATARN here:  http://www.atarn.net/phpBB2/index.php and then search (not the Old Archive search which is different) on "Han crossbow".

      http://atarn.net/phpBB2/post15229.html?hilit=Han%20crossbow&sid=762cecb8343a4a9ef39530a7df0dac79#p15229
    avatar
    banuvatt
    Workshop Savvy

    Did you see my tool collection?


    Workshop SavvyDid you see my tool collection?


    Posts : 271
    Join date : 2018-09-12

    Making Chinese 240lb Han Crossbow Empty Re: Making Chinese 240lb Han Crossbow

    Post by banuvatt Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:32 pm

    You might want to try using Ipe or some really dense hardwood to simulate horn. Bamboo, hickory or fiberglass cloth for the backing. You could to glue it up all together put it in a form use a lot of strips of bicycle inner tubing. I heard g-flex epoxy is good for this it's a cheaper alternative to smooth on.
    avatar
    banuvatt
    Workshop Savvy

    Did you see my tool collection?


    Workshop SavvyDid you see my tool collection?


    Posts : 271
    Join date : 2018-09-12

    Making Chinese 240lb Han Crossbow Empty Re: Making Chinese 240lb Han Crossbow

    Post by banuvatt Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:40 am

    The draw length on Han Dynasty crossbows were much longer than their European counterparts but, they weren't the same as bows. Especially since Chinese archers do a over draw increasing the draw length adding at least another 3 inches. I believe the draw length was 24" on Han dynasty crossbows. Also the prods on Han Dynasty crossbows were less like later Asiatic horse bows that they didn't have siyahs. Every picture I have seen of a prod on a Han Dynasty crossbow it looks much more similar to a Scythian or a Korean horse bow meaning that the tips were reflexed. But, not to the extend of Chinese and Mongolian horsebows where you would have these great long siyahs.

    Sponsored content


    Making Chinese 240lb Han Crossbow Empty Re: Making Chinese 240lb Han Crossbow

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Wed Feb 28, 2024 9:37 pm