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Crossbows - Everything about Building, Modding, and Using your Crossbow Gear

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» Chu Ko Nu - repeating chinese crossbow
by c sitas Yesterday at 8:30 am

» Ball shooting Crossbows worth the bother
by topfmine Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:24 pm

» Skew of tiller
by drawknife Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:18 am

» tiller desgin
by crusader Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:37 am

» Want to build modern target crossbow
by ora8i Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:20 pm

» starting a 1400's replica
by tghsmith Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:25 am

» New Medieval just about finished
by Dark Factor Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:41 am

» How do I tune this
by stuckinthemud1 Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:14 am

» Plans and materials for my first build
by c sitas Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:39 am

» Bolt rest
by stuckinthemud1 Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:24 pm

» Collotiere a Charavines crossbow
by stuckinthemud1 Sun Jun 06, 2021 2:25 pm

» ash lath and pin-lock crossbow
by stuckinthemud1 Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:56 am

» Late medieval tournament distances?
by stuckinthemud1 Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:20 am

» Cutting delrin straight by hand?
by kenh Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:24 pm

» Other forums like this one?
by stuckinthemud1 Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:23 am

» new find in china, terra cotta warrior site
by tghsmith Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:42 am

» Crossbow Books
by Andy. Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:46 pm

» 95lb ancient crossbow shot faster than 960lb medieval
by Fangbows Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:36 pm

» best type of horn to use..
by kenh Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:16 pm

» re-introduction
by tghsmith Sun Mar 07, 2021 3:15 pm

» 4 fletch question
by 8fingers Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:14 am

» fix bolts
by MPDVM Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:40 pm

» Reverse draw compound bow build
by c sitas Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:20 pm

» New Build for 2020
by Gnome Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:19 am

» Spanning bench ideas
by stuckinthemud1 Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:07 pm


4 posters

    tiller desgin

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    crusader
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    tiller desgin Empty tiller desgin

    Post by crusader Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:11 am

    hey guys,

    I would like some tips on the desgin of a tiller.

    I want a munition grade crossbow.

    I have a nut of diameter 38mm
    thickness 25mm

    I want to use steel side plates. 2-3mm thick.

    I have a prod that is 34mm high in the middle. 180# @8.5

    How high, thick and long should the tiller be made?

    I want to use ash or oak.

    prod lashing

    I was thinking of a length of 850mm without stirrup included.

    a thickness of about 45mm
    left and right of the nut I have 10mm wood.

    is 45mm enough to hold the prod stably?

    and a height of about 70mm.

    let me know what you guys think.
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    stuckinthemud1
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    tiller desgin Empty Re: tiller desgin

    Post by stuckinthemud1 Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:01 pm

    It's hard to visualise from a set of numbers. Nothing is screaming at me but most of us start with a scale drawing
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    kenh
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    tiller desgin Empty Re: tiller desgin

    Post by kenh Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:28 am

    What do you mean a "munition grade" crossbow?  180# prod isn't all that powerful.

    Do you want a modern "assault rifle" design, or an historical design? European or Asian design?  Long trigger bar or modern complex trigger?    Look at a bunch of images and pick out something YOU like and send us a picture -- then we can help you better.  As "stick" says, it's hard to visualize from a bunch of numbers.  

    The tiller can be 35mm wide from the butt to forward of the lock; then either gradually flare in width to the prod socket, or simply have thicker side plates added to fatten the prod contact area.  My 250# fiberglass prod sits well in a ~45mm wide socket.

    The tiller body is a piece of standard American 2x6,  The reinforcement plates are 1/8" thick.  Notice I use a Chinese style prod lashing technique and a braided cord stirrup.

    tiller desgin Headde12
    tiller desgin Loosel11
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    tiller desgin Empty Re: tiller desgin

    Post by tghsmith Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:18 am

    though some of the material is dated,, the book of the crossbow is a good reference to start with.. other books in the list are a great help.. most photos come with some measurements..
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    tiller desgin Empty Re: tiller desgin

    Post by crusader Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:19 am

    tiller desgin Knipse14
    Hey guys,

    I bought the prod and other metal parts  a while ago and now I finally want to finish it.
    In hindsight I should have bought a stronger one.
    I use a roller nut with a trigger about 200mm long
    Here are some pictures from the tods workshop website.
    Tod is one of the best crossbow builders in my opinion.
    I want to base my design on this.
    Munition grade is a design without too much decoration, quick to produce in wartime.

    I look forward to hearing from you again!

    Regards,


    tiller desgin Knipse12tiller desgin Knipse13
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    stuckinthemud1
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    tiller desgin Empty Re: tiller desgin

    Post by stuckinthemud1 Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:11 pm

    I had a bad feeling that was where you were heading.  Please can someone who knows correct.me, but as far as I can tell, the munition xbow never existed. I have never found a period artwork or photo of a crossbow that matches Todd's work. Don't get me wrong, some of his work is exquisite, but a square tiller with metal cheek pieces and metal prod with single axis lock?! Look, its your bow and you make your ideal shape and we'll be very happy to help every step of the way, but some times a maker builds down to a price and historical accuracy goes out the window.

    Mind, a Spanish -style crossbow would have metal cheeks, single axis lock, steel bow, nut of brass, iron, or antler and is a very beautiful weapon....
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    tiller desgin Empty Re: tiller desgin

    Post by kenh Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:44 pm

    I think "stuck" is right -- that's a Todd design, not an historic design -- it's a sort of squared-off, simplified Padre Island Spanish style crossbow.  

    There's almost nada to design there -- the tiller looks like a basic 2"x3" stick of timber -- no graceful tapers or curves.  Your choice of wood -- ash, oak, maple, birch even.  

    Use a Forstner bit to drill out the socket for roller nut,  and another to drill the hole for the prod lashings.  Cut the prod slot to the right angle so the string rests on the deck at brace.  Chisel out the tripper track.  Small  curved chisel and round rasp to make the bolt track.  With only a 180# prod you should not need a whippe or goat's foot to cock with, just the stirrup.  Round-over the edges of the tiller prevent wear and tear and splinters.
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    tiller desgin Empty Re: tiller desgin

    Post by crusader Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:03 pm

    Hey,

    I will make some changes to the outer contours in the top and side view myself.

    But I want to get the main dimensions right.
    such as the thickness at the prod.
    I trust the thickness at the roller nut because I work with side plates.
    I think I'll go from a 2 inch rough plank and plan it to as thick as possible.
    I hope I have 45mm left
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    tiller desgin Empty Re: tiller desgin

    Post by crusader Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:57 pm

    hey,

     The first point is the bh and the second pin is the full span length.
     At square to the prod.

     I don't think you can have a fixed number of degrees for all crossbows.

     Every prod is different, if the bh height changes, the angle must also be different, right?

     And the distance between the top of the tiller and the top of the prod.

     It also determines the angle.
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    tiller desgin Empty Re: tiller desgin

    Post by kenh Thu Aug 12, 2021 5:11 pm

    Seems like I read somewhere in all this crossbow stuff that somewhere around 12 degrees was a good number for the angle of the dangle.  Of course every prod and brace height and socket will make a difference.  The important issue is that the string should rest on the deck when the prod is braced.  If it drags along the deck when released a lot of energy will be lost to friction with the deck instead of being transferred to the bolt.
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    tiller desgin Empty Re: tiller desgin

    Post by crusader Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:37 am

    hey,

    Here are some pictures of the test model.

    The hole for the liver still needs to be moved a bit.

    That requires a lot of precision, I notice now.tiller desgin 110
    tiller desgin 210
    tiller desgin 310

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