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Crossbows - Everything about Building, Modding, and Using your Crossbow Gear

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» 12th Century Chinese Crossbow Chronographed
by stuckinthemud1 Fri Nov 24, 2023 3:50 pm

» Crossbow Stock
by kenh Tue Oct 31, 2023 6:19 am

» Colletiere a Charavines continuing experiment
by stuckinthemud1 Sat Oct 07, 2023 5:36 am

» Cocking - how
by stuckinthemud1 Thu Aug 03, 2023 4:24 am

» Questions around heavy crossbow lath buildin
by stuckinthemud1 Wed Apr 26, 2023 1:10 am

» Arab Crossbow
by stuckinthemud1 Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:57 am

» prod angle, and lever trigger for sale anyone?
by stuckinthemud1 Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:54 am

» flexible string
by jasper1978 Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:25 am

» [solved]Skane/Lillohus crossbow thread
by stuckinthemud1 Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:44 am

» jens sensfelder
by jasper1978 Wed Mar 08, 2023 11:58 pm

» 400lb Windlass crossbow bolts weight and accuracy shooting high.
by stuckinthemud1 Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:53 pm

» Codex Löffelholz crossbow
by stuckinthemud1 Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:14 pm

» Digitar prodsc
by stuckinthemud1 Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:42 pm

» Troubleshooting
by Andy. Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:29 pm

» Wood Prods
by stuckinthemud1 Fri Dec 30, 2022 12:47 pm

» Colletiere a Charavines crossbow
by stuckinthemud1 Fri Dec 30, 2022 8:54 am

» Simplified Löffelhotz speedloader
by stuckinthemud1 Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:05 pm

» Fiberglass H-bows
by c sitas Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:44 am

» Bad Antler
by drawknife Sat Nov 12, 2022 3:48 am

» Anyone make their own bolts?
by Juniper Mon Oct 17, 2022 8:20 am

» Josef alm in English
by Juniper Sat Oct 15, 2022 4:22 am

» Qin/Han lock drawings
by kenh Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:16 pm

» stirrup dimensions?
by stuckinthemud1 Thu Sep 01, 2022 1:49 pm

» Skane/Lillohus lockbow information needed
by stuckinthemud1 Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:23 am

» need help contacting le musee Dauphinois Grenoble
by stuckinthemud1 Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:22 pm


4 posters

    tiller desgin

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    crusader
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    tiller desgin Empty tiller desgin

    Post by crusader Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:11 am

    hey guys,

    I would like some tips on the desgin of a tiller.

    I want a munition grade crossbow.

    I have a nut of diameter 38mm
    thickness 25mm

    I want to use steel side plates. 2-3mm thick.

    I have a prod that is 34mm high in the middle. 180# @8.5

    How high, thick and long should the tiller be made?

    I want to use ash or oak.

    prod lashing

    I was thinking of a length of 850mm without stirrup included.

    a thickness of about 45mm
    left and right of the nut I have 10mm wood.

    is 45mm enough to hold the prod stably?

    and a height of about 70mm.

    let me know what you guys think.
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    tiller desgin Empty Re: tiller desgin

    Post by stuckinthemud1 Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:01 pm

    It's hard to visualise from a set of numbers. Nothing is screaming at me but most of us start with a scale drawing
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    tiller desgin Empty Re: tiller desgin

    Post by kenh Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:28 am

    What do you mean a "munition grade" crossbow?  180# prod isn't all that powerful.

    Do you want a modern "assault rifle" design, or an historical design? European or Asian design?  Long trigger bar or modern complex trigger?    Look at a bunch of images and pick out something YOU like and send us a picture -- then we can help you better.  As "stick" says, it's hard to visualize from a bunch of numbers.  

    The tiller can be 35mm wide from the butt to forward of the lock; then either gradually flare in width to the prod socket, or simply have thicker side plates added to fatten the prod contact area.  My 250# fiberglass prod sits well in a ~45mm wide socket.

    The tiller body is a piece of standard American 2x6,  The reinforcement plates are 1/8" thick.  Notice I use a Chinese style prod lashing technique and a braided cord stirrup.

    tiller desgin Headde12
    tiller desgin Loosel11
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    tiller desgin Empty Re: tiller desgin

    Post by tghsmith Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:18 am

    though some of the material is dated,, the book of the crossbow is a good reference to start with.. other books in the list are a great help.. most photos come with some measurements..
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    tiller desgin Empty Re: tiller desgin

    Post by crusader Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:19 am

    tiller desgin Knipse14
    Hey guys,

    I bought the prod and other metal parts  a while ago and now I finally want to finish it.
    In hindsight I should have bought a stronger one.
    I use a roller nut with a trigger about 200mm long
    Here are some pictures from the tods workshop website.
    Tod is one of the best crossbow builders in my opinion.
    I want to base my design on this.
    Munition grade is a design without too much decoration, quick to produce in wartime.

    I look forward to hearing from you again!

    Regards,


    tiller desgin Knipse12tiller desgin Knipse13
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    tiller desgin Empty Re: tiller desgin

    Post by stuckinthemud1 Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:11 pm

    I had a bad feeling that was where you were heading.  Please can someone who knows correct.me, but as far as I can tell, the munition xbow never existed. I have never found a period artwork or photo of a crossbow that matches Todd's work. Don't get me wrong, some of his work is exquisite, but a square tiller with metal cheek pieces and metal prod with single axis lock?! Look, its your bow and you make your ideal shape and we'll be very happy to help every step of the way, but some times a maker builds down to a price and historical accuracy goes out the window.

    Mind, a Spanish -style crossbow would have metal cheeks, single axis lock, steel bow, nut of brass, iron, or antler and is a very beautiful weapon....
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    tiller desgin Empty Re: tiller desgin

    Post by kenh Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:44 pm

    I think "stuck" is right -- that's a Todd design, not an historic design -- it's a sort of squared-off, simplified Padre Island Spanish style crossbow.  

    There's almost nada to design there -- the tiller looks like a basic 2"x3" stick of timber -- no graceful tapers or curves.  Your choice of wood -- ash, oak, maple, birch even.  

    Use a Forstner bit to drill out the socket for roller nut,  and another to drill the hole for the prod lashings.  Cut the prod slot to the right angle so the string rests on the deck at brace.  Chisel out the tripper track.  Small  curved chisel and round rasp to make the bolt track.  With only a 180# prod you should not need a whippe or goat's foot to cock with, just the stirrup.  Round-over the edges of the tiller prevent wear and tear and splinters.
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    tiller desgin Empty Re: tiller desgin

    Post by crusader Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:03 pm

    Hey,

    I will make some changes to the outer contours in the top and side view myself.

    But I want to get the main dimensions right.
    such as the thickness at the prod.
    I trust the thickness at the roller nut because I work with side plates.
    I think I'll go from a 2 inch rough plank and plan it to as thick as possible.
    I hope I have 45mm left
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    tiller desgin Empty Re: tiller desgin

    Post by crusader Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:57 pm

    hey,

     The first point is the bh and the second pin is the full span length.
     At square to the prod.

     I don't think you can have a fixed number of degrees for all crossbows.

     Every prod is different, if the bh height changes, the angle must also be different, right?

     And the distance between the top of the tiller and the top of the prod.

     It also determines the angle.
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    tiller desgin Empty Re: tiller desgin

    Post by kenh Thu Aug 12, 2021 5:11 pm

    Seems like I read somewhere in all this crossbow stuff that somewhere around 12 degrees was a good number for the angle of the dangle.  Of course every prod and brace height and socket will make a difference.  The important issue is that the string should rest on the deck when the prod is braced.  If it drags along the deck when released a lot of energy will be lost to friction with the deck instead of being transferred to the bolt.
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    tiller desgin Empty Re: tiller desgin

    Post by crusader Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:37 am

    hey,

    Here are some pictures of the test model.

    The hole for the liver still needs to be moved a bit.

    That requires a lot of precision, I notice now.tiller desgin 110
    tiller desgin 210
    tiller desgin 310

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