The Arbalist Guild

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Crossbows - Everything about Building, Modding, and Using your Crossbow Gear

Latest topics

» ash lath and pin-lock crossbow
by stuckinthemud1 Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:31 pm

» Finish on lashings
by stuckinthemud1 Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:48 pm

» Look what the smith sent
by stuckinthemud1 Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:35 pm

» Covid 19 and crossbow builders
by kenh Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:22 am

» Crossbow accuracy
by Geezer Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:51 am

» How do you feel about miniature crossbows?
by El Zurdo Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:21 am

» Claw crossbow prototype
by Dennis Greenaway Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:34 pm

» how to Build a non Chinese repeating crossbow?
by Dennis Greenaway Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:05 pm

» Just finished my windlass crossbow!
by Dennis Greenaway Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:01 pm

» Sinew backed crossbow prod tillering. Update and questions.
by stuckinthemud1 Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:43 am

» snakeskin not birch bark on composite bows in medieval period
by Cornerstone Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:50 pm

» two axle mechanism makers/accurate plans?
by stuckinthemud1 Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:34 am

» Anyone make their own bolts?
by MPDVM Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:14 pm

» Stonebow Buildalong
by banuvatt Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:00 pm

» How to Attach a PVC Prod to a Stock?
by banuvatt Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:22 am

» finally started my first composite bow
by stuckinthemud1 Fri May 29, 2020 12:40 am

» AMAZING MINI CROSSBOW code name KillCovid-19
by El Zurdo Thu May 21, 2020 3:14 am

» Draw length ash lath
by banuvatt Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:47 am

» Would like to buy or rent a Han Chinese Trigger
by PierreC Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:37 am

» High Draw Weight PVC Crossbow Build
by banuvatt Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:07 pm

» Universal standard Crossbow nut
by Fangbows Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:57 pm

» Making Chinese 240lb Han Crossbow
by banuvatt Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:40 am

» Goat’s foot lever drawings
by Geezer Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:18 am

» First Build
by banuvatt Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:14 pm

» How to Test the Breaking Strength of a Matieral for a Bow String?
by banuvatt Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:06 am


    Rust prevention in medieval times

    avatar
    Spyro.Magno
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows

    Posts : 16
    Join date : 2013-08-25

    Rust prevention in medieval times Empty Rust prevention in medieval times

    Post by Spyro.Magno on Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:41 pm

    Hi, i have a question that crosses my mind from a long time how they did prevented the iron from rusting?

    Putting aside the fact that from what i understand the iron/steel of medieval times was closer to our cast iron than steel, and i know as a fact (meaning books write about this) that iron have stronger corrosion resistance due to higher carbon percentage and different molecular structure, and putting aside the ''hot bluing'' or quenching in oil that gives that black finish how did they prevent corrosion? 

    I don't think they tempered armor for example so it was all about maintenace? Oil and polishing? Or there were some alchemy-like stuff involved? 

    Thank you in advance
    Geezer
    Geezer
    Master Crossbowyer
    Master Crossbowyer

    Posts : 1178
    Join date : 2010-01-12
    Age : 72
    Location : Austin, Texas, USA

    Rust prevention in medieval times Empty Re: Rust prevention in medieval times

    Post by Geezer on Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:18 am

    Medieval steel and rust... Medieval smiths were quite capable of making good steel... some of it was even crucible-steel imported from the east, but even local smiths could make good steel if they had the right materials... Steel made in and around Toledo Spain, f'rinstance, had a bit of nickel and chrome in the ore... so they could make really good alloys.  The thing is, good steel was expensive and it could only be made in small quantities.  That's why you don't see steel crossbows before @ 1350... because the steel 'industry' was mostly very small shops that couldn't make steel in big billets.  Typically the best medieval swords (and other tools) had good, hard steel for cutting edges, but the rest of the blade was made of lesser stuff.
       It's likely that most triggers, lockplates, bow-irons, etc. were made from wrought iron or very low-carbon steel.  But good quality arrow points, the edges of tailors' scissors (not shears, real scissors) good quality knives, etc. were actually made of very good steel. 
        Outside oil-quenching and blueing, most armor-steel was painted.  just because we see it in the white (bare) in a museum, doesn't mean it was used that way.  (The famous/infamous English White Company of mercenaries were apparently so-named because they kept their armor bright)  A fair number of steel crossbows... like the Fels-Colonna bow in the Wallace Collection in London, had their steel prods covered with painted parchment, perhaps partially for decoration, but also for protection.  
       As for protecting run of the mill stuff in the white... your guess is good as mine... probably they treated it with something like linseed oil, that dries to leave a slightly gummy residue.  Otherwise, I suspect you just work your steel over once a week with oil and sand.  Geezer.
    avatar
    Spyro.Magno
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows

    Posts : 16
    Join date : 2013-08-25

    Rust prevention in medieval times Empty Re: Rust prevention in medieval times

    Post by Spyro.Magno on Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:35 am

    Ok! thank you

    I would have never imagined they actually painted armor! 

    I read on the forum of someone who used burnt wax... but i dont know how he did it, probably put it on the piece and then burnt it.
    hoopslaboratories
    hoopslaboratories
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows

    Posts : 6
    Join date : 2013-06-29

    Rust prevention in medieval times Empty Re: Rust prevention in medieval times

    Post by hoopslaboratories on Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:48 pm

    Here are the gentlemen over at John Neeman tools making a framing slick in the old world fashion. At around 2:40 you can see the application of beeswax while the chisel is still warm from heat treatment.
    jds6
    jds6
    Workshop Savvy

    Did you see my tool collection?


    Workshop SavvyDid you see my tool collection?

    Posts : 197
    Join date : 2011-10-18
    Age : 57
    Location : Dallas,TX

    Rust prevention in medieval times Empty Re: Rust prevention in medieval times

    Post by jds6 on Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:07 pm

    Greetings all
    Steel and armor where protected by a variety of means. It did not prevent it from rusting, but prevented it from rusting past a certain point. One of the most popular was "bluing". There are two forms of bluing hot and cold.
    hot occurs when the steel is heated and rapidly quenched instead of slow cooling.(water or oil). 
    the idea behind this is to create a thin outer layer that was impregnated with oil that would wear off in time but would slow down the oxidation process which results in rust. However this does not stop rust just slows it down.
    Cold bluing is different all together. Instead of heat and oil, a chemical was used to cause the steel to rust very rapidly. (urine for example). Taking precautions to rust the steel evenly. Then oil was rubbed into the rusty metal. Let it rust some more, apply more oil,let it rust some more and so on. the end result on this process was a very deep black or brown surface that basically helped slow down the rust. But with each way one had to obsessively take care of the steel.
    In my opinion the idea of armor and steel being all bright and shinny and mirror like is just for the movies!!!

    jds6
    avatar
    Spyro.Magno
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows

    Posts : 16
    Join date : 2013-08-25

    Rust prevention in medieval times Empty Re: Rust prevention in medieval times

    Post by Spyro.Magno on Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:17 pm

    Awesome video, gave me the chills! 
    Working steel the old way must be a terrific experience!

    I know it sounds weird but im convinced that there is some form of genetic memory or something like this, for example i'm actually a machinist and i really can't stand working aluminum, plastic meaning : theyre awesome materials but they just don't give the same feeling and satisfaction of working steel, bronze or brass. 

    Anyway thank you jds6 i already read something like you said in some other place, i would like to give a try to the last method you wrote at least as a test sample, and see what comes out of it

    Sponsored content

    Rust prevention in medieval times Empty Re: Rust prevention in medieval times

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:08 pm