Creating my first medieval crossbow

Here is my first creation. I tried to keep it as faithful to a medieval reproduction, so please if any one spots something not correct please give a feedback .
I don't know if i am uploading the pictures right, please help!
thank you.

https://i.servimg.com/u/f12/14/72/92/15/willia28.jpg


https://i.servimg.com/u/f12/14/72/92/15/willia29.jpg

Hello William,

I congratulate you on this fine build.

"Medieval replicas" is a subject that can be stretched and broken into deep details of technologies used in construction of these crossbows as well as specific measurements used on that particular crossbow...such an undertaking will require great knowledge of history and traditional technology. Highly ornamental crossbows packed with detailed inlays of bone and horn were in most cases deeply symbolical and were built and presented as gifts to high standing officials for use in battle, sport, and/or time of leisure. The intensity of replicating these famous crossbows is very high and as I already said requires great skill and knowledge of the construction details.

As for the more ordinary models...only the technology and widely accepted measurement standards would have to be followed...an appropriate style of bow and the way it is mounted, the shape of stock, style of crossbow trigger and method of it's construction, style of sights, etc. I can not stress enough the materials being used...as plastics in areas other than decorative(bone inlay/carving substitution) would automatically disqualify it from being considered a reproduction and classify it as stylization...there are a few exceptions(nut socket made from pvc pipe ...instead of traditional bone) and they're considered "cheating" by some hardcore historians, but as long as they are not obvious and don't cut the eye I don't see a reason to bring up the authenticity...thou it is cool to sometimes see a working reproduction with all it's hardcore traditional parts.

Thou not as hardcore...Stylization are certainly a great way to get into the mood for researching different styles of crossbow and serve as a base upon which to build up skills of working with more traditional side of the crossbow making.

Personally the only thing that worries me in this crossbow is the combination of plastic rolling nut with a 300lb prod...can you please tell us more about it's construction...did you incorporate any metal pins into the nut so there is some reinforcement in the sear area and the teeth? what method did you use to cut in the nut into the stock? what combination of woods did you use in this crossbow?...also I would highly appreciate if you could post a few more pictures giving a closer look at the detail at various parts of your crossbow as well as the ones with this bow loaded? Personally I would post a million videos of me and my friends shooting a crossbow like this, but then again I do respect the privacy of others and such a move is something I leave to you.


Looking forward to hearing from you William and if you wish to post more pictures there is a topic explaining the basics here: "Posting Pictures"

PS: This is fascinating to discuss what can be done to make a more authentic reproduction, but most things have to be discussed separately as there are many ways of doing one thing...a range of topics can be created: medieval crossbow styles, medieval crossbow sights, medieval triggers, etc. etc. etc. and this is only having t do with "medieval side of the crossbow" and not to mention the variety of features available as crossbows evolved from bow on a stick

Hi Ivo,

First of all thank you for the compliment and the encouragement. In fact yes you are right once again, because I teach Reproduction technics of Medieval arms and Armour. I also have my website of historicalarmouries.com but at the moment I am having a problem with the webmaster and it is offline. sorry!

Yes it is all so very very true that the crossbow was a very highly prized weapon. In fact this may be new to you, in fact over here in Malta at the time of the knight hospitaliers in 1565, the crossbows were kept under lock and key at all times ( except during the great siege). This was due to the fact that the order could not risk having some saboteur breaking inside the armoury (prior to an attack) and slashing all the strings on those heavy monstrous weapons that they treasured so much. I will be submitting some pictures of original 15-16th century crossbows later on, which are on display at the Palace armoury here in Malta.

Yes of course, I am submitting some more pictures of my crossbow. Yes I did tap a quarter inch stainless steel pin on the sear so that it won't wear off (eventually the teflon nut has to go, and make one of real horn) In fact, I already ordered a piece of stag horn.
About the stock, I used American Oak at the center sandwiched between 2 half inch pieces of American Walnut. But then again I am soon replacing the trajectory grove with orange wood which is very very hard. Since the wood is sandwiched Ivo, I could easily saw off the nut base before it was permanently glued together.
I have started working on another crossbow model, but this one is going to be of a modern design I already finished the lock, made entirely of solid brass except for the Catch. By the way I truly admired you constructing a li'l rabbit hunter for your brother. You are quite ingenious yourself.

Very well done Ivo and thank you

Thank you William,

I've just understood how cleverly you tackled the assembly of this crossbow...preparing everything from chiseling out the space for the trigger mechanism to seating the finished parts and simply pressing it together in between walnut sides into a practically finished crossbow stock...leaving you only the mounting of the bow and of coarse the detail work. I'm impressed!

I also like the Fleur di Lis theme you've chosen...which reminds me of this one jewelry website I visited once.


I didn't bring up this jewelry site for just this one reason...some(or all) of this jewelry is made by hand with a form of "metal clay". The prices hint that this jewelry is made with high- and semi-precious metal clays(not sure about how that works yet), but it's a part of research I'm doing for a friend on a subject of replicating authentic looks with synthetic materials.

Yes it is all so very very true that the crossbow was a very highly prized weapon. In fact this may be new to you, in fact over here in Malta at the time of the knight hospitaliers in 1565, the crossbows were kept under lock and key at all times ( except during the great siege). This was due to the fact that the order could not risk having some saboteur breaking inside the armoury (prior to an attack) and slashing all the strings on those heavy monstrous weapons that they treasured so much. I will be submitting some pictures of original 15-16th century crossbows later on, which are on display at the Palace armoury here in Malta.

Mr SAM and I as well as everyone here I'm sure will be thrilled to see as well as contribute photos/videos of crossbows from different corners of the world. I have recently gone to the Metropolitan Museum of Art here in USA and have taken photos of crossbows currently on exposition there. We are planing on gathering all such images/videos/drawings/and possibly plans in this thread: "Medieval Crossbows: Photos, Drawings, Diagrams"

As for the great siege crossbows...check out this topic :

"Gubio: Italian Сrossbow Festival"

Your website...I'm looking forward to seeing it...I'm planing on doing a LINKS page where everyone will be able to introduce their website/business so more people will be able to get in touch with them.

Good Day to you Will,

Ivo

PS: About my little project...A crafts man is always pleased to hear his work is appreciated...I better get to completing it then.

...also I will be updating the Image posting topic tomorrow, so keep an eye on it...ok.

Hi Ivo!

Ha ha ! thank you my friend. Yes I hate double work, that's how I always work, I plan first than start the project. Actually yes, i chiseled the trigger mechanism base,made sure that both the tickler and the nut worked freely and glued the halved stock together. However I can disassemble the mach parts at any time by removing the nut and tickler shafts.
That's a nice pendant, some fine craftsmanship. I herd of clay metal but don't know how it's done neither. I sculptured the flur-de-lys on mine from solid brass. in fact all the parts on it are hand carved.
As promised I am submitting some original 15-16th century crossbow pics. Notice how narrow the arrow ridge was on them and also how short the draw distance was on them. Simply fascinating to behold ain't they?
I am also submitting some of my armour creations, even though they are not crossbows, I am quite sure that most of the members would enjoy viewing.
Oh by the way. thanks for exposing (in detail ) the trigger mechanism as i made one very similar for my next crossbow. I went to see some scopes for it today but over here they sell these things so darn expensive. So i think I will order one from overseas, any suggestions my friend?

Well thank you Ivo and thanks to mr SAM

Blessings to all.
https://i.servimg.com/u/f12/14/72/92/15/crossb15.jpg as well .
https://i.servimg.com/u/f12/14/72/92/15/crossb11.jpg
https://i.servimg.com/u/f12/14/72/92/15/crossb12.jpg
https://i.servimg.com/u/f12/14/72/92/15/crossb13.jpg

https://i.servimg.com/u/f12/14/72/92/15/14th_c10.jpg
https://i.servimg.com/u/f12/14/72/92/15/14-15t10.jpg
https://i.servimg.com/u/f12/14/72/92/15/16th_c10.jpg
https://i.servimg.com/u/f12/14/72/92/15/here_i10.jpg
https://i.servimg.com/u/f12/14/72/92/15/crusad10.jpg
https://i.servimg.com/u/f12/14/72/92/15/hounsk10.jpg

Dear William,
I very much enjoyed your crossbow! I do love brass work. The bow irons were beautiful, and the inlaid work.
One suggestion, if I may?
Your roller nut, the cut out for the lugs, this was somewhat at a right angle. In period, these were quite rounded.
More like this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/swifthoundbows/3926167660/in/set-72157622262033595/
Like a partial circle cut out of the antler nut. This holds the string a bit better.

I was really intrigued by the leather ends on the prod, (to protect the string?) and on the butt, also for protection? What a good idea. Do you have a pattern for the end caps for the prod, if you do not mind sharing? I would like to make some, if that is ok with you.

I also really liked the photos of the bow in your last post, I love bows of this type, and was so pleased to see the detail on these bows, very exciting! Thank you for those.
In our shop, we make one very similar, and we call it the Padre Island bow. This is because we model it as accurately as possible after some bows that were found in a Spanish shipwreck off of Padre Island on the coast of Texas.
Geezer was allowed to handle, measure and photograph the remnants. I find these skinny bows to be elegant. I have made two or three now, and have set aside a piece of purpleheart wood to make one for myself (when I have the time someday!)
Here are some photos of the first one that I made. I photo documented it, as I have done to a few of the bows I have made in the shop.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/swifthoundbows/3434392053/in/set-72157612720020116/

One difference between authentic spanish bows of this type, and the ones we are making, is that we make our cheek pieces in two pieces, not one. We don't have the metal work skills/hardware to do that yet, altho we are planning to talk to a smith friend to see if we can eventually do that.

Again, thank you for the photos!

Best;

Lightly.

Hi Guys,
William, is the adjustable leaf sight something you've seen in the museum/armory in Malta?
i've been looking at crossbows on the net for a couple of weeks but not seen anything like that.
And those gauntlets are pretty crazy. Makes me want to buy an anvil and bellows. It must be great feeling to pass on those skill to people.

I was wondering if anyone knew of drawings, diagrams or scaleable photos of the crossbows William has just posted. I know there's a book called The Knights Armory by S.Spiteri about the Grand Masters Armory. Does it have their crossbows in it?

Lightly, I think these bows are elegant too. It makes sense they're very similar to your Padre Island replicas as the St John bows were also originally shipboard weapons...maybe both made in Spain?
Was the ring purely for hanging or does it mean they used a whip? They seem to also have bars for a goat's foot.
I really like the prod tips in your photos they're not standard ones I guess, Errr...can they be ordered from you?

Hello my friends,

Gentlemen, firstly I would like to thank you for the compliments, it truly encourages me and I do the same to others who deserve a compliment.
Hi Lightly ! i will start by answering you my friend. Yes, certain medieval crossbows had a half round notch carved on the nut and this was a must on BATTLE CROSSBOWS, but on most hunting crossbows it was square. Now why was this so? I tell you why. According to original manuscripts which were left in Malta by the Knights of St John. One particular treatise spoke about how the Balistieri and Archibustieri should act,conceal and conduct themselves during a siege. On one particular paragraph it describes in detail on how the crossbow should be speedily cocked and loaded. It says " The semi round notch on the nut is made so as to hasten the time of the arbalista in placing his arrow in place during a siege".
So presumably, Lightly this was the reason why it was fashioned in such a way, whereas the hunter was in no such a hurry to place his bolt in the square notch.
One more thing before I forget. Yes it seems strange that the original crossbows has a small round ring instead of the stirrup, In fact on the bastions every couple of feet apart there were steel hooks, so that for agility's sake the arbalist hooked his crossbow onto one of these steel hooks and cranked while he is still standing upright. This was done to save time.
Now guys I will gladly submit the pattern of the string protectors tomorrow.

Hi Balbi ! thanks to you too for the compliments.
I'm sorry i do not have any patterns of the original crossbows that are in the pictures, but on my next trip to the armoury I am planning on taking a pattern of one of them and will gladly submit it here. I am not sure if they are on Stephen Spiteri's book, have to go through it again and see.
About the adjustable leaf sight, no I did not see it on any medieval battle crossbow, I designed it myself and works quite well.
Ha ha, I am glad you liked the leather string protectors, no ! I am not going to sell you a pair, but if you tell me were you live I can mail you a pair or else tomorrow I am going to submit the pattern if you want to make them yourself , they are quite easy to make.
Well have to go my friends.
see ya all tomorrow.
William Tell.

Hi William,

Great work on the armour and blades...I've wanted to get into smithing, but it was too noisy for my family . I end up settling for "casting" and I'm actually trying out a few different formulas of self made refractory for the foundry furnace...some good some bad...I plan to be casting brass and aluminum...once I'm done I'll be posting a topic about my research on casting...the good, the bad, the why, and the don't

As for Lighly's response...I believe she meant not the bolt nock seat in between the teeth of the nut, but the rounding of the cut out in the teeth "themselves" to help seat the string more evenly...that way there string covers more surface area and there is not as much leverage on the teeth...but you were right about the square nock vs. round...something new for me.

Also thank you for the wonderful pictures...Once I get some time I'll be uploading the ones I took at our museum. ...my main computer broke and this one loads very slow

Geezer here: Somebody asked it the ring in the nose of the 'Padre Island' or Malta bows will take a 'wippe' lever. In the case of the Padre Island, light Spanish crossbow, the answer is a resounding NO. The ring is secured with a very small pin situated beneath the cheek-plates that surround the prod/lath. The ring is clearly there for hanging the bow up, or possibly for fitting over some sort of pin, but it would never handle the force required for a wippe-lever to work. The Padre Island bow was found with a gafa-lever in situ by treasure-hunters in the 1980's, after being buried in the sand since 1554. What fun! Geezer.

Geezer wrote:Geezer here: Somebody asked it the ring in the nose of the 'Padre Island' or Malta bows will take a 'wippe' lever. In the case of the Padre Island, light Spanish crossbow, the answer is a resounding NO. The ring is secured with a very small pin situated beneath the cheek-plates that surround the prod/lath. The ring is clearly there for hanging the bow up, or possibly for fitting over some sort of pin, but it would never handle the force required for a wippe-lever to work. The Padre Island bow was found with a gafa-lever in situ by treasure-hunters in the 1980's, after being buried in the sand since 1554. What fun! Geezer.

Hi Geezer!

Yes that is all so true, the ring can never support all that pressure of a wippe lever and that is what i said earlier. During the Great Siege the arbalists rested the bow on one of the bastion hooks while they used either the cranequin or the ratchet. This was done to save time.

William

Hi Ivo,

Ah yes! of course the string covers the whole of the bolt end in the round manner, but also makes it faster to load the bolt.
for the benefit of Balbi and Lightly, ( didn't know lightly was a female) Hi love! Here is the diagram for the String protectors. they are very simple to make.

https://i.servimg.com/u/f12/14/72/92/15/string10.jpg

William,
thank you very much for the leather pattern! I will try it as soon a possible. And, yes, what Ivo said, I was referring to NOT The 'nock', where the butt end of the bolt would seat, but the cut out itself, this is almost universally a round-ish shape. But, I did appreciate your information on the round and square nock, that was very interesting.

Take care!

Lightly.

Hi William,
Thanks for the protector pattern, They're on my things to make list.
The photos of the St John's bow are really nice.
I envy you living on the same island as that beautiful Armory.
They seem to have had 2 or 3 styles manufactured to order.
To help my understanding of them I mocked up a composite of the 3 styles.
It looks like some don't have bow irons...maybe they had them originally?
From what I can see they came in several different lengths as well.
I've used the Alchem bow diagram as a starting point, using the nut as a measure.



What do you think, is it too wide at the prod end?
B

I wouldn't say it's too wide at the prod end. These skinny/rectangular Spanish/Italian/Maltese bows vary a bit in details. Some are tapered a bit from lock to fore-end, and many are 'keeled' That is, narrower at the bottom of the head than at the top. So at the prod-socket, the stock might be an inch and a quarter wide at the top and half that at the bottom. The original 'Padre Island' Spanish bow is very slender, being only about 1.5 inches wide and tall at the lock. The roller-nut itself is almost exactly, 1 inch wide and perhaps 1 and 1/8 inches in diameter. Of course the head of the stock was taller, to accomodate the prod. The prod itself was approx 1.25 inches high and 3/8 inch thick... 22 inches long. The bow was found buried in the sand, with a folding 'gafa' or 'goatsfoot' cocking lever lying on top. Might have originally been stored in a box or bag.
The Maximilian I bows and Louis XII bow in the Kunsthistorisches Museum in Vienna are shaped much like the Maltese bows, though the prods are mounted with bow-irons. This is the bow that my apprentice Lightly made. Note the bottom of the fore-end from lock to head, is 'V' shaped, or keeled. The top of the stock, from end to end, is very slightly gabled, with the edges sloped slightly down. In front of the lock, that's undoubtedly to reduce string drag and wear. Behind the lock, it simply looks cool.

Very cool stuff, huh? Thanks for the diagrams of the Maltese bows. Geezer

Hi Balbi,

Very well done and very enthusiastic, I like that. It is very well mocked up. However yes They either had bow irons or roped as the bows they had came from Spain and Italy. The prod did thin out towards the tips, to half the thickness of the center. I shall be producing some more pics of them later on my friend.

Keep it up and well done Balbi.

William

Hello William,

I was admiring the picture sets you posted and my eye stopped on the inlay side plate. Interesting...how you arpoached the fiting of the inlay?



My simple admiration turned into a question because it just happened that there was a small discussion on another forum regarding metal to wood inlay fitting. A guy just finished his crossbow and was explaining what he did and how....and then a few words slipped about how he was fitting the cast silver dragon inlay into the side of the stock and how unpleasant this experience was. Given this was a metal inlay and there was no chance of it becoming discolored/stained(as wood/bone/plastic would) I suggested using something dental technicians use today for fitting inlays as well as adjusting crown fit.

There is an aerosol type product that's also available in brush on form and it's called "Fit-indicator"

http://www.net32.com/ec/occlude-green-aerosol-indicator-marking-spray-marks-d-34270

Basically it works like this...the indicator spray is applied to the back side of the inlay and once the indicator layer is dry the inlay is tried in...the high spots preventing a good seating of the inlay will transfer the indicator onto wood...adjustments are made using a rotary handpiece or a file/chisel(what ever suits you best) and fit is checked again and so on and so forth untill you have a good fit all around.

Perhaps someone here can also share their experience with inlaying...this is a topic that seems kinda simple untill you hit the bench and start grinding bone which does not like that indicator stuff as it stains permanently and the piece is ruined.

Almost forgot here is the topic where the guy shows his work:
http://forum.arbalet.info/viewtopic.php?t=8224&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

as well as the inspiration piece:
http://forum.arbalet.info/viewtopic.php?t=6905

Hi Ivo !

Hope all is well. oh that one yes. here is a secret which i devised. when I made those inlaid plates, I did not cut just the two brass inlaid designs but I also cut a third which was actually made of iron. So what I did was. I had the Nut shaft hole already drilled to use a guide and so having filed the 3 plates (2brass and one iron ) I laid the stock flat, griped the iron plate and heated it up with a little propane torch. When the iron plate began to change color I slipped it into the nut shaft and pressed it against the stock, thus burning up the stock wood a little (say 1,5mm deep) then I removed it and did it a second time this time I had about 2.5 mm deep. Then I took up a surgical blade and started cleaning the slightly burned recess. of course you would have to deepen a bit more with some sculpturing chisels until the plate is flush with the surface .

You like this idea my friend?

William

A sort of a "burn-in" stamp...like the kind used for branding cattle. :moo: ...I'm not making fun...just joking ...the idea is excellent and very practical...thou it might take a little practice in getting it the transfer on a more bulgy landscape. I've read this book on engraving and those guys use a pattern drawn on thin paper and a needle transfer tool(I'll see about getting the pictures up here in a little bit)

the great thing about your idea is it kinda goes back in time which allowed me to think in the same manner. This hinted me in the direction of being able to better describing what that "fit-indicator" looks and feels like>>> it looks like bright colored Soot!!! You know the kind you get from the candle if you touch the tip of he flame. Perhaps the medieval craftsmen used a form of candle or wick to apply soot to the piece...also possible that to prevent the soot from permanently becoming embedded in the material the parts were heated and wiped with liquid wax giving a very thin protective film that could later be wiped clean of all the soot and cleaned under hot water. Wax possibly also played a role of a spacer to account for the layer of cement/glue the inlay was seated in.

Feast your eyes my friends, below are some more pictures of original medieval crossbows, Ivo notice the nut on some of them they are square. The fletches of the bolt are made of waxed leather and has an enormous Armour piercing tip. notice the squarish butt-end.
Also notice how long the ticklers are. Oh! how I spend hours inspecting them. I also had the chance to handle some of them (with gloves of course) and I tell you those prods are heavy. I had the opportunity to handle one of the prods and man that thing must weigh around 6-7 Lbs.

Enjoy my friends

William


:glol:

Good Day William,

Thank you for the pictures. I do have a small request thou...I hinted to you as well as mentioned it in the last PM I sent you about posting pictures...Can you please use the "Thumbnail" code instead of just posting the link to your picture...it simply makes a small preview of the picture that can be expanded to full size(no need for resizing anything).

Also I would appreciate if you posted the museum crossbow photos in the topic I suggested earlier VVV

...We are planing on gathering all such images/videos/drawings/and possibly plans in this thread: "Medieval Crossbows: Photos, Drawings, Diagrams"

...that way we will be able to not just look at them in amazement, but actually hold an "organized" discussion. That way when this forum is big and we will have a dozen crossbows behind our belt and our old ones somewhere on the 50th page > these pictures of the museum crossbows will be on the top shelf for everyone to gaze upon and use for reference in their builds instead of digging through the 50 pages without a hope in the world.

Hope you agree with me on this one...I just want to keep this topic clean and direct all the posts that will be here in the future to be about the "crossbow you have built" and NOT a "generalized topic" that is becoming less and less related to your crossbow with every post made.

Again thanks for the great pictures, Mr SAM has already taken the liberty of moving the photos and accentuating the attention on them in the appropriate topic. Here is a link ... LINK

Yes, sorry for overseeing that part, will do from now on and you are very right, they would be much easier to reference.

Thanks for your patience.

William

Sorry it took so long to reply, going nuts with this trip here.

Anyway...didn't mean to make you feel uneasy...there is no need to apologize ... I just thought of a few simple suggestions, that's all.

Ivo

Hi Ivo !

Trip driving you nuts eh !! well that's normal my friend. by the way what do you think of the last original pictures I've sent?
I am building my second crossbow. This one is of a modern design. I shall be sending some pictures soon. Hey I got myself one hell of a prod 8.5mm thick x 26.5 inches.
Talk to you later pal .

William