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    Glued washers as nuts

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    Post by Bs1110101 Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:24 am

    Somewhere i said that i was making a nut from a few big washers, and that i might make a whole thread about how to do it, and this is that thread.
    ...or would be if my glue held.
    Glued washers as nuts J9doDeV
    It broke as i was trying to cut out the trigger notch.
    For the next time i think i'm going to use through pins and wood in the center to save weight.
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    Post by Seventeen76 Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:18 pm

    When applied correctly solder will turn two pieces of steel into one, it actually bonds directly to the steel and won't come off without melting it or grinding it off. Brazing is better and full fusion welding better yet but for a relatively easy solution soldering requires nothing in the way of special tools, just a hotplate or some way to slowly heat your work. Steel does require a strong acid flux and you would probably need to remove the zinc plating on those washers.
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    Post by Scotty Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:16 pm

    What kind of adhesive did you use?
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    Post by chaz Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:41 am

    How about drilling two  1/8" holes through your washers assembly and then "rivet" your sandwich of washers together using 1/8" metal rod and then peening tight, if you don't have use of the other tools previously mentioned.

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    Post by Gnome Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:12 pm

    It's an interesting problem, essentially laminating steel discs to make a roller nut, and I'm sure if you keep at it you'll succeed. I'd like to back up a few steps, though, as I wonder what got you on this track in the first place. The weight of the steel is going to rob you of performance, to the point where it might actually cause misfires if the nut moves too slow. The only rumours I've heard of steel roller nuts has to do with very powerful, siege-type weapons where you'd be better off milling the whole thing from a single steel billet than assembling it from pieces. Have you got specs on the rest of the build you are planning?
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    Post by Bs1110101 Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:41 am

    Devcon 2 ton epoxy, it didn't work at all, only 2 of the washers are still stuck together

    I was planning on having pins go though it, though i thought that the epoxy was strong enough i wouldn't need them.

    The whole point of this project was to build a nut that was strong enough to use on anything, and the biggest one i was planning on making was going to be made from a leaf spring and a 4 by 4, and i would mill it from one chunk of metal if i could, but the price of doing something like that is far too much for someone like me.
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    Post by Seventeen76 Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:11 am

    Any local metal dealer will sell you an inch or inch and a half piece of cold rolled round bar, you can plunge cut it using an end mill bit in an ordinary drill press or simply use your hacksaw or angle grinder. You really aren't saving any work by cutting a bunch of washers rather than one thicker piece of stock.
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    Post by Gnome Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:07 pm

    Yeah, what Sev said. I guess when I start shooting my mouth off about milling billet steel, I should let you know that I'm not thinking of anything high-tech or expensive. Find a round hunk of steel the right diameter and the hard part is done, the rest can be accomplished with simple tools and patience. Of course, the simpler the tools, the more patience required! If you have a metal dealer you can get rod that big from, great, but if not, source creatively! I just took a look about my shop to see if I had anything that would fit the bill, and my eye lighted on my big ball peen hammer. The flat striking head is 1.5" diameter, and could be cut off at 1.5" to form a near-perfect steel cylinder.
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    Post by jds6 Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:18 pm

    You can check out this site www.metaldepot.com They have 1 1/2" 1018 cold finished round bars for around 14.25 per ft. plus shipping. That enough steel bar to get 8 roller nuts, at about $ 1.78 each. That is  probably less expensive than the 3 washers, and epoxy combined.
     I have made a roller nut out of this metal. Not all that difficult to do, if you take your time and watch what you are doing. Hope this helps

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    Post by Scotty Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:14 pm

    Bs1110101 wrote:Devcon 2 ton epoxy, it didn't work at all, only 2 of the washers are still stuck together
    Well, Devcon 2 ton was what I was going to suggest.silent
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    Post by Seventeen76 Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:47 pm

    jds6 wrote:You can check out this site www.metaldepot.com They have 1 1/2" 1018 cold finished round bars for around 14.25 per ft. plus shipping...

    jds6
    It is really worth buying your steel locally if you can, online vendors charge close to double the local rates and shipping doubles that again. Most places charge a small fee for each cut but they are sort of like ace hardware in that they don't get upset if you need just $1 worth of material.
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    Post by Bs1110101 Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:17 pm

    I looked for something like that, nothing big enough, but the good news is that i think i can spot weld the washers.
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    Post by Geezer Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:56 pm

    Geezer here:  I've really-really tried to stay out of this washers/glue discussion, but I just can't stand it.  Stop, go no further, all the effort you're putting into this project would be better spent in either using a real piece of turned metal... steel, brass, nickel, aluminum, whatever.  Assuming you ever get these washers all welded together, you'll discover the assembled mass isn't round and you'll have to turn it somehow... probably on a spindle hung from a drill-press.  And that will come out oddly ovoid, 'cause you really can't turn a perfect cylinder on a drillpress.  So whatcha need to do is either buy the right material to begin with, or look at some of the alternative lock-systems that are out there.  The washer-solution might be made to work, but almost anything else will take less time, engender less frustration.  And no, I haven't tried the washer-solution, but I've wasted plenty of time on other fruitless pursuits.  This one is a non-starter.... go back.... go back.... go..... back....!
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    Post by chaz Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:38 pm

    Geezer There, Well Said !


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    Post by Seventeen76 Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:50 pm

    You must not weld on zinc plated steel, besides making a poor weld you will vaporize the zinc and create very toxic fumes.

    Also a stack of washers like that is too thick for spot welding.

    You can weld on those washers but you must remove all the zinc and use an appropriate welder. You can try your spot welder but don't overheat it by leaning on the trigger, if it doesn't form a secure weld in the count to 3-4 then it never will. MIG, TIG, flux core and oxy-gas are all better choices, stick would work but you will likely make a mess and be left with a lot of grinding.

    But as has been said you are only making work for yourself by using washers.
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    Post by Bs1110101 Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:55 pm

    All of my plans have been stopped right now, because somehow i managed to brake my vice.
    And making it from one peace is a much better idea, though i have no idea where to get something to make it from at all cheaply.
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    Post by PierreC Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:21 pm

    How on earth did you manage to break a vice?  I've done a great many things that you are not supposed to do to one and never managed it...  Before I had access to an anvil, a press, or a post-vice, a simple 8" mechanic's vice has been all of those things for me.

    I was going to save this until I have time to finish and test one thoroughly, but my current attempt to build a high-powered roller nut is centered around modifying a cast-iron rigid caster:

    http://www.princessauto.com/pal/en/Steel/2-in-Sintered-Iron-Rigid-Caster/2040155.p

    It is much heavier than a roller nut needs to be, but since it runs on an axle, I can probably machine off a lot of the weight.  If I leave the round front face, I can actually have it ride against two stacks of 608 bearings, to take some of the load off the primary axle.  I think the resulting roller nut would be strong enough that I can then make a prod that benefits from a hydraulic cranquin: 

    http://www.princessauto.com/pal/en/Hand-Pumps-And-Rams/10-Ton-Porta-Power-Pull-Back-Ram/8176349.p
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    Post by Gnome Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:23 pm

    Ha! I've broken two bench vises, and my third is in sorry shape. I'm not going to tell anyone how I broke the first one, and I'm really not telling anyone that I broke the second one doing the exact same thing!
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    Post by Bs1110101 Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:43 pm

    Progress! At least on the idea of one that's partly wooden.
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    Post by PierreC Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:36 pm

    I tried facing an iron caster wheel on the lathe today.  Lots of sand inclusions....  The stuff cut pretty nicely with a hacksaw, but it is pretty nasty to machine.
    In retrospect I really should have done the lathe operations before cutting notches, at least that way I would not be doing an interrupted cut.

    That wood cored nut looks pretty nice.  The epoxy will have something to grab on, and it looks like it is pinned with a couple of bolts...
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    Post by ferdinand Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:13 am

    U could do one out of a piece of solid hardwood or oak. Easy to cut and sand, available and cheap! I am worried the washers will damage  the string!
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    Post by Scotty Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:44 pm

    ferdinand wrote: I am worried the washers will damage  the string!
    Those super narrow fingers worry me too.  I'd extend the wood up between the fingers and then notch the wood for the nock.
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    Post by Geezer Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:19 am

    Okay, if you're determined to use washers in your roller-nut, you may be approaching a workable solution.  I suggest three washers... one in the middle, cut for the trigger-sear. (By the way, you should put your sear in a pocket at the center, with most of the roller left round, so it won't oscillate so badly, unless you intend to hang the roller on a substantial axle, and let it bear the load.  
    Then sandwich two more washers halfway out from the center, on each side of the sear, to reinforce the lugs that hold the string.  Then finish off with some wood on the outside edges, so you can round off and smooth the lugs, so they don't eat the string.  So you end up with a sandwich, glued and riveted together of: wood/washer/wood/ (sear-washer/wood/washer/wood.  That way, the steel washers won't eat serving and bowstring, yet add substantially to the strength of the wood-roller.  That's about the only way I can think of that MIGHT give you a workable washer-nut.  Assuming the glue and rivets hold everything together.  It's a lot of trouble, you'll get a product no stronger than a moose-horn roller, but you won't have to buy or turn the horn.   It Could Work.... or maybe not.  Geezer
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    Post by actionbow Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:49 pm

    I have had luck with jb weld and pins. My latest roller nut is made from 3/16 steel, on the outer edges and a solid brass roller in the middle. I scuff mating surfaces with 60 grit and pound the pins into square filed holes.
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    Post by Geezer Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:15 am

    A solid brass roller should be plenty strong to take any load you're likely to put on it... you don't need any steel reinforcement, outside possibly a steel insert for the sear.  It WILL be very heavy, and tend to initiate misfires.   Keep having fun!

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