The Arbalist Guild

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Crossbows - Everything about Building, Modding, and Using your Crossbow Gear

Latest topics

» Ball shooting Crossbows worth the bother
by topfmine Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:24 pm

» Chu Ko Nu - repeating chinese crossbow
by Dark Factor Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:36 am

» Skew of tiller
by drawknife Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:18 am

» tiller desgin
by crusader Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:37 am

» Want to build modern target crossbow
by ora8i Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:20 pm

» starting a 1400's replica
by tghsmith Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:25 am

» New Medieval just about finished
by Dark Factor Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:41 am

» How do I tune this
by stuckinthemud1 Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:14 am

» Plans and materials for my first build
by c sitas Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:39 am

» Bolt rest
by stuckinthemud1 Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:24 pm

» Collotiere a Charavines crossbow
by stuckinthemud1 Sun Jun 06, 2021 2:25 pm

» ash lath and pin-lock crossbow
by stuckinthemud1 Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:56 am

» Late medieval tournament distances?
by stuckinthemud1 Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:20 am

» Cutting delrin straight by hand?
by kenh Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:24 pm

» Other forums like this one?
by stuckinthemud1 Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:23 am

» new find in china, terra cotta warrior site
by tghsmith Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:42 am

» Crossbow Books
by Andy. Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:46 pm

» 95lb ancient crossbow shot faster than 960lb medieval
by Fangbows Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:36 pm

» best type of horn to use..
by kenh Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:16 pm

» re-introduction
by tghsmith Sun Mar 07, 2021 3:15 pm

» 4 fletch question
by 8fingers Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:14 am

» fix bolts
by MPDVM Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:40 pm

» Reverse draw compound bow build
by c sitas Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:20 pm

» New Build for 2020
by Gnome Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:19 am

» Spanning bench ideas
by stuckinthemud1 Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:07 pm


3 posters

    finally started my first composite bow

    avatar
    stuckinthemud1
    Crossbow Junkie

    I live here!


    Crossbow JunkieI live here!

    Posts : 398
    Join date : 2014-02-05
    Age : 53
    Location : south wales valleys

    finally started my first composite bow Empty finally started my first composite bow

    Post by stuckinthemud1 Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:34 am

    Wish me luck guys, I've just finished roughing out all the horn pieces I need for my first composite bow, all of them a lot shorter than I would like. First discovery, you can't straighten horn with a sideways curve!! Now I have to shape, champfer, groove and glue about 30 horn strips; should keep me busy 'til Spring.
    avatar
    kenh
    Crossbow Junkie

    I live here!


    Crossbow JunkieI live here!

    Posts : 846
    Join date : 2012-08-03
    Age : 73
    Location : Living Aboard a Sailboat in Fort Myers, FL

    finally started my first composite bow Empty Re: finally started my first composite bow

    Post by kenh Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:41 am

    I could have told you that you can't straighten side curved horn.

    You absolutely do not need to grove the horn and the core.  That technique was used only by one segment of the hornbow industry, late Turkish/Ottoman Empire.  The vast majority of wood-horn composite bows throughout history were just glued flat-to-flat.  As long as you have adequate primer-coats of fish glue, then the 15/85 fish-horn glue blend will adhere properly.
    avatar
    stuckinthemud1
    Crossbow Junkie

    I live here!


    Crossbow JunkieI live here!

    Posts : 398
    Join date : 2014-02-05
    Age : 53
    Location : south wales valleys

    finally started my first composite bow Empty Re: finally started my first composite bow

    Post by stuckinthemud1 Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:34 pm

    Hi Ken, thanks for chiming in on this. I did not know most hornbows were not grooved, this will make my Magyar build much more straightforward!! I'd love to read up on that, don't suppose you have a link I can follow?

    Re. crossbows, every cross-section of a historic piece I have found on-line (admittedly this is only 7 or 8 examples) has grooved horn pieces, some interlocking, others not. Also, the detailed analysis of a crossbow lath in the manuscript by Baron du Cosson found the pieces (of something identified as baleen) to be grooved. Since isinglas seems to be very expensive I am likely to use gelatin glue rather than fish glue so the extra feying surface I think will be necessary - would be great if I could avoid grooving though as its hours of extra work!

    Thanks for posting that picture of a horn bow core to this forum a while back, its been a really useful resource for me.

    Andrew
    avatar
    stuckinthemud1
    Crossbow Junkie

    I live here!


    Crossbow JunkieI live here!

    Posts : 398
    Join date : 2014-02-05
    Age : 53
    Location : south wales valleys

    finally started my first composite bow Empty Re: finally started my first composite bow

    Post by stuckinthemud1 Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:59 pm

    OK, so I have a digital copy of Die Hornbogenarmbrust which I just transferred to my phone so I can zoom in close on the images therein. Looks like you're correct about the grooving being optional Ken, from what I could see the shorter highly stressed bows were grooved, though sometimes the grooves were little more than deep scratches, while the large wall mounted bows don't always seem to have been grooved. Many of the bows with grooved horn pieces had non-interlocking grooves. Really wish I could speak German.
    avatar
    stuckinthemud1
    Crossbow Junkie

    I live here!


    Crossbow JunkieI live here!

    Posts : 398
    Join date : 2014-02-05
    Age : 53
    Location : south wales valleys

    finally started my first composite bow Empty Re: finally started my first composite bow

    Post by stuckinthemud1 Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:37 am

    I started cutting out the horn pieces a long time ago, now I have (hopefully) cut enough out, all oversized.  I am steadily filing it all straight, true and a mm or 2 oversize, boiling and straightening pieces as I go.  I have about 20 12 inch pieces, about the same number of 8 inch long pieces, and about 8 12 inch long curved pieces I might use as recurved tips.   I have a few design decisions to make, the main one being whether to use a wood core.  I am very reliably told by someone who knows that if I do not use one the bow will be between 120 and 150kg in draw weight, less complex to build and more reliable in use.  I am also told the wood core adds relatively little to the draw weight.  The lessons of history imply a wooden core is not necessary as they had largely disappeared  from use by the late Gothic.  Still, coming from an archery background, a wooden core is what I know best and not using on is very counter-intuitive, although there is a class of native American horn bows that do not use a wooden core.
    finally started my first composite bow 20191008_1421106649350836728070154-e1570541081445
    avatar
    stuckinthemud1
    Crossbow Junkie

    I live here!


    Crossbow JunkieI live here!

    Posts : 398
    Join date : 2014-02-05
    Age : 53
    Location : south wales valleys

    finally started my first composite bow Empty Re: finally started my first composite bow

    Post by stuckinthemud1 Thu May 28, 2020 4:04 am

    Well, there are some advantages to lock-in,  found a metal soft enough that I can work with it, made a grooving tool, am now about 1/4 of the way into assembling the horn matrix.  Doesn't look like much huh?
    finally started my first composite bow 20200528_1052197613538487627054542
    avatar
    banuvatt
    Workshop Savvy

    Did you see my tool collection?


    Workshop SavvyDid you see my tool collection?

    Posts : 271
    Join date : 2018-09-12

    finally started my first composite bow Empty Re: finally started my first composite bow

    Post by banuvatt Thu May 28, 2020 4:59 pm

    I have seen people use hacksaw blades to score bow backing and core laminates. I am sure you could apply the same concept to horn as well.
    avatar
    stuckinthemud1
    Crossbow Junkie

    I live here!


    Crossbow JunkieI live here!

    Posts : 398
    Join date : 2014-02-05
    Age : 53
    Location : south wales valleys

    finally started my first composite bow Empty Re: finally started my first composite bow

    Post by stuckinthemud1 Fri May 29, 2020 12:40 am

    I found an old builder's trowel, mild steel over 1mm thick. Makes an excellent grooving tool. Every piece is grooved but only to about 1mm . They are sized about 15 times before gluing together. Seems to be working

    Sponsored content

    finally started my first composite bow Empty Re: finally started my first composite bow

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:36 pm