The Arbalist Guild

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Crossbows - Everything about Building, Modding, and Using your Crossbow Gear

Latest topics

» 12th Century Chinese Crossbow Chronographed
by stuckinthemud1 Fri Nov 24, 2023 3:50 pm

» Crossbow Stock
by kenh Tue Oct 31, 2023 6:19 am

» Colletiere a Charavines continuing experiment
by stuckinthemud1 Sat Oct 07, 2023 5:36 am

» Cocking - how
by stuckinthemud1 Thu Aug 03, 2023 4:24 am

» Questions around heavy crossbow lath buildin
by stuckinthemud1 Wed Apr 26, 2023 1:10 am

» Arab Crossbow
by stuckinthemud1 Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:57 am

» prod angle, and lever trigger for sale anyone?
by stuckinthemud1 Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:54 am

» flexible string
by jasper1978 Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:25 am

» [solved]Skane/Lillohus crossbow thread
by stuckinthemud1 Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:44 am

» jens sensfelder
by jasper1978 Wed Mar 08, 2023 11:58 pm

» 400lb Windlass crossbow bolts weight and accuracy shooting high.
by stuckinthemud1 Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:53 pm

» Codex Löffelholz crossbow
by stuckinthemud1 Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:14 pm

» Digitar prodsc
by stuckinthemud1 Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:42 pm

» Troubleshooting
by Andy. Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:29 pm

» Wood Prods
by stuckinthemud1 Fri Dec 30, 2022 12:47 pm

» Colletiere a Charavines crossbow
by stuckinthemud1 Fri Dec 30, 2022 8:54 am

» Simplified Löffelhotz speedloader
by stuckinthemud1 Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:05 pm

» Fiberglass H-bows
by c sitas Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:44 am

» Bad Antler
by drawknife Sat Nov 12, 2022 3:48 am

» Anyone make their own bolts?
by Juniper Mon Oct 17, 2022 8:20 am

» Josef alm in English
by Juniper Sat Oct 15, 2022 4:22 am

» Qin/Han lock drawings
by kenh Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:16 pm

» stirrup dimensions?
by stuckinthemud1 Thu Sep 01, 2022 1:49 pm

» Skane/Lillohus lockbow information needed
by stuckinthemud1 Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:23 am

» need help contacting le musee Dauphinois Grenoble
by stuckinthemud1 Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:22 pm


4 posters

    Huge steel prod for a catapult

    HeroSK
    avatar
    HeroSK
    Tinkerer

    If there is a will, there is a way.


    TinkererIf there is a will, there is a way.


    Posts : 63
    Join date : 2013-11-27
    Age : 37
    Location : Turkiye
    • Post n°1

    Huge steel prod for a catapult Empty Huge steel prod for a catapult

    Post by HeroSK Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:18 am

    Hey all,

    I just found images of an interesting catapult powered by huge steel prod that apparently built in similar manner with ordinary steel prods for crossbows but in much larger scale. This catapult located in Grandson Castle in Switzerland. I would like to hear your opinions and it would be great if someone could supply more information such as time period, dimensions etc.

    Huge steel prod for a catapult Grands10

    Huge steel prod for a catapult Grands11
    Thanks in advance
    • Back to top
    Geezer
    Geezer
    Geezer
    Master Crossbowyer
    Master Crossbowyer


    Posts : 1194
    Join date : 2010-01-12
    Age : 76
    Location : Austin, Texas, USA
    • Post n°2

    Huge steel prod for a catapult Empty Re: Huge steel prod for a catapult

    Post by Geezer Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:44 am

    Oh dear!  Just because it's old doesn't necessrily mean it's workable.  Don't try this at home.  It will deliver one shot, then fly apart.  As a catapult making friend once said: "It's quite easy to make a catapult that will shoot a stone a hundred yards. The trick is to make one that will do it a second time, and a third.' This one is not a winner. Geezer.
    • Back to top
    Gnome
    Gnome
    Gnome
    Crossbow Junkie

    I live here!


    Crossbow JunkieI live here!


    Posts : 451
    Join date : 2011-10-16
    Age : 60
    Location : North Georgia
    • Post n°3

    Huge steel prod for a catapult Empty Re: Huge steel prod for a catapult

    Post by Gnome Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:26 pm

    Wow. It looks like some baron said, "we don't need no stinkin' engineers, I can design my own siege engine!" I'm not sure this would even work once. Maybe more likely it's just an inaccurate reconstruction. Even if it was constructed solidly and with better geometry, I'll bet it's pretty inefficient, and a good chunk of the available force would be soaked up by the frame. I'd like to see that prod mounted up in a more standard crossbow-type layout, though, just to see what it could do.
    Gnome
    • Back to top
    jeep
    avatar
    jeep
    Crossbow Junkie

    I live here!


    Crossbow JunkieI live here!


    Posts : 379
    Join date : 2011-04-07
    • Post n°4

    Huge steel prod for a catapult Empty Re: Huge steel prod for a catapult

    Post by jeep Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:53 am

    If you went to harm somebody with this one,put him behind not in front ! Here some interesting info about "mengonet" and others :http://www.real-world-physics-problems.com/catapult-physics.html
    • Back to top
    HeroSK
    avatar
    HeroSK
    Tinkerer

    If there is a will, there is a way.


    TinkererIf there is a will, there is a way.


    Posts : 63
    Join date : 2013-11-27
    Age : 37
    Location : Turkiye
    • Post n°5

    Huge steel prod for a catapult Empty Re: Huge steel prod for a catapult

    Post by HeroSK Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:09 pm

    Oh guys! Have mercy please! I am sure it can be (or used to) used for casting some grenades off the walls upon ascending crowd of enemies from behind of walls thus enabling defenders to operate under safety. The surprising part for me that I have always thought this type of bow powered machines are fictitious but apparently that was not true. I guess it is not a medieval catapult. It could be an early modern launcher that is used when there is not enough powder.
    • Back to top
    Geezer
    Geezer
    Geezer
    Master Crossbowyer
    Master Crossbowyer


    Posts : 1194
    Join date : 2010-01-12
    Age : 76
    Location : Austin, Texas, USA
    • Post n°6

    Huge steel prod for a catapult Empty Re: Huge steel prod for a catapult

    Post by Geezer Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:04 pm

    Hero:  You've missed the point.  The huge steel bow isn't sufficiently well attached, as well as being attached too far out on the limbs to be workable.  Assuming you could bend the stave enough to fling a projectile, it would fly out of the mounting downrange behind the projectile.  In my opinion, it's entirely unworkable.  Most likely cobbled together to show the tourists.  Geezer.
    • Back to top
    Geezer
    Geezer
    Geezer
    Master Crossbowyer
    Master Crossbowyer


    Posts : 1194
    Join date : 2010-01-12
    Age : 76
    Location : Austin, Texas, USA
    • Post n°7

    Huge steel prod for a catapult Empty Re: Huge steel prod for a catapult

    Post by Geezer Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:19 pm

    Whis is not to say one couldn't make a projectile-flinger based on similar principles.   And the spring itself certainly looks old.  It might be part of a big siege bow, or perhaps even a catapult.  I'm just saying this one is a piece of excrement and would be dangerous to even try to span.  It's just all wrong, as well as being flimsy.  Geezer.
    • Back to top
    HeroSK
    avatar
    HeroSK
    Tinkerer

    If there is a will, there is a way.


    TinkererIf there is a will, there is a way.


    Posts : 63
    Join date : 2013-11-27
    Age : 37
    Location : Turkiye
    • Post n°8

    Huge steel prod for a catapult Empty Re: Huge steel prod for a catapult

    Post by HeroSK Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:56 pm

    Thanks for clarification Master Geezer, I absolutely agree about this machine eventhough were an efficient catapult in the past, museum personnel hastily put the parts together which looks like quite unsafe. This is yet another example of how such artifacts are treated by unqualified museum personnel. Maybe they just preferred to rebuild it without damaging it's originality thus they did not use proper fitting for the bow.

    Also, I have never heard about crossbows with such a huge steel bow. Don't you think that such a huge steel bow would be quite slow thus rendering machine useless? As far as I know, such large crossbows, arcuballistas usually build with horn-sinew prods.
    • Back to top
    Geezer
    Geezer
    Geezer
    Master Crossbowyer
    Master Crossbowyer


    Posts : 1194
    Join date : 2010-01-12
    Age : 76
    Location : Austin, Texas, USA
    • Post n°9

    Huge steel prod for a catapult Empty Re: Huge steel prod for a catapult

    Post by Geezer Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:40 pm

    By all accounts there are extant siege bows with prods (lath) on the order of two meters wide.  In some cases, those are clearly horn/sinew composites, but some may be steel.  I don't know enough to say.  Certainly there are limits to making crossbows/catapults with huge bows.  At some point, the efficiency of such units is seriously compromised by limited strength of the materials.  That's why the famous Leonard da Vinci giant crossbow design is pretty much a washout.  It's just too big to be workable. In fact torsion-skein catapulta are much more efficient in large forms than giant crossbows. The Romans had catapultae that threw 50 and 100 lb. stones for siege work... knocking the crenelations off city walls. Of course building torsion machines would require a different level of engineering, so it's possible the local baron would find it easier and cheaper to have large crossbows built than catapultae, but in theory the torsion-bundles store more energy and deliver it to the projectile with less loss of energy.  Geezer.
    • Back to top
    HeroSK
    avatar
    HeroSK
    Tinkerer

    If there is a will, there is a way.


    TinkererIf there is a will, there is a way.


    Posts : 63
    Join date : 2013-11-27
    Age : 37
    Location : Turkiye
    • Post n°10

    Huge steel prod for a catapult Empty Re: Huge steel prod for a catapult

    Post by HeroSK Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:22 pm

    This is exactly what Heron of Alexandria (10-70 AD) writes about how torsion artillery were invented;

    "By means of the above-mentioned engine(arcuballista) of course,a larger missile could be projected a t longer range. But they wished to increase both the size o f the missile and the force o f projection. They sought to make the arms of the bow more powerful, but they could not realize their intention by the use of composite bows."


    Sad part is all the information about building such huge bows were lost. There are some later such prods but there is no way to be sure if ancient bows were built in the same manner.
    • Back to top
    Sponsored content

    Sponsored content


    • Post n°11

    Huge steel prod for a catapult Empty Re: Huge steel prod for a catapult

    Post by Sponsored content

    • Back to top

      Current date/time is Fri Apr 26, 2024 6:55 pm