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    SCA Target crossbow

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    8fingers
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    SCA Target crossbow

    Post by 8fingers on Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:23 pm

    I want to build a target crossbow in a pre-1650 style. Range 20,30 and 40 yds. I will make or have a friend at a spring shop make the prod. 28 in nock to nock, about 100# @ 12 in. ( would a longer prod and draw length aid accuracy?)
    I am wanting a tipping block release modified to look like a roller nut, double set trigger,
    Schuetzen style trigger guard and stock. An insert underside of stock for a fore hand rest ( proper term?)or something permanent like Belgian or Italian target crossbows.
    Primative rear sight, maybe like P-G notched block for thumb or a side pin rear/ side ladder front.
    Been through Payne-Gallweys book but there isn't much on older target bows.

    Action plan.
    Make a rough template. Make prod. Pine mock up. Good stock- probably split stock. Wood choice is Walnut with a Cherry bolt groove. (Quarrel rest better?) Have a double set trigger for a Thompson Center (Will it have enough throw to trip release lever? time to measure)
    Does this sound about right?
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    Re: SCA Target crossbow

    Post by Todd the archer on Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:24 am

    Sounds simular for a future project I was thinking of. Keep us posted on your progress.

    Todd

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    Re: SCA Target crossbow

    Post by 8fingers on Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:55 pm

    I was just on the crossbow history forum and looked at Gubio's ballllestari festival. Beautifully carved tillers, 1.5 meters long and pinpoint accurate. I think I would go with a roller nut if I dared dream I would be allowed to compete.
    So now I need 4 times the amount of walnut for the tiller and carve a quarter of it away Crying or Very sad
    I want to take another look at those sights scratch
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    Re: SCA Target crossbow

    Post by Todd the archer on Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:22 am

    I was thinking something more along these lines.

    Nothing wrong with those huge Italian crossbows, just don't want to carry a shooting bench around!
    Todd

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    Re: SCA Target crossbow

    Post by 8fingers on Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:47 pm

    The picture you uploaded is closer to my first choice but the SCA powers that be up here are stuck at about 1400. For target shooting, the one you posted is legal but probably not for combat.
    I have a leaf spring I've just started to mark out for a prod. I'll see how it turns out and see which crossbow look most compatible with the results.
    I have some walnut and cherry boards on hand, and there is a real possibility this is going to spawn a second crossbow from the leftovers.

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    Re: SCA Target crossbow

    Post by 8fingers on Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:52 pm

    My left hand is still terribly stiff so I have to keep it simple for a little while. Crying or Very sad
    Looking at making a bamboo backed hickory prod today, (if the bamboo is dry enough) cherry stock, older matchlock profile? Roller nut because I have one nearly built. Be a good time to figure out the throw of the set trigger I have.
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    Re: SCA Target crossbow

    Post by Todd the archer on Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:47 pm

    The more you use those fingers the better off you are (I know). Don't forget to take some pics of your progress. Eager to to see how your set trigger works out.

    Todd

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    Re: SCA Target crossbow

    Post by 8fingers on Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:04 am

    Spent the evening grinding some bamboo down to make some backing strips. I'm not up to working steel yet.
    I'm guessing but it is looking like I can make a 40" nock to nock prod from the best strip of bamboo. I'm figuring 38 working inches, allowing for stock width. Divide by 2.2 and I should get a safe draw of 17.25".
    Using a piece of hickory about 1.75" wide, 5/8" thick at center as the prod, bamboo backed, should be fairly stout. If it is too wimpy I'll add more bamboo to the belly. I'll use Urac 185 epoxy. Thinking about wrapping it in rawhide once it is tillered. Try to give it a more European look.
    Found some parts for the last crossbow I tried to make. I'll leave trigger decisions till the prod is finished and I know how my hand is doing. Basically an exercise in avoiding chisels for inletting. Otherwise I'll get someone to do it for me.
    I'm waking up with only about a 15 degree bend in my injured fingers, working it until I have about 45 degrees by bedtime. Any suggestions on whether I should use walnut or cherry for my 'therapy' stock?
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    Re: SCA Target crossbow

    Post by Todd the archer on Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:37 am

    I have only used walnut so far although cherry is a bit softer and would be easier to work. Yeah I remember with my hand it seemed like it was impossible to ever to get my pinky to touch my thumb now no problem. Hang in there!

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    Re: SCA Target crossbow

    Post by Geezer on Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:09 am

    [quote="8fingers"] The picture you uploaded is closer to my first choice but the SCA powers that be up here are stuck at about 1400. For target shooting, the one you posted is legal but probably not for combat.
    Geezer here: You are right about the bow pictured. SCA target competition generally cuts off @ 1600, and in fact, the preference is more like 1500. The bow illustrated is a 19th century target bow... the very long nose and shotgun butt pretty much eliminate it from SCA competition, though in fact most of the shooters would be glad to see such a bow make an appearance. They just won't let you shoot in the 'historically correct' category (yes, the 'historically correct' category is pretty loosely interpreted, but not that loosely.)
    Whatever the case, it's a lovely bow and deserves to be replicated. Geezer

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    Re: SCA Target crossbow

    Post by 8fingers on Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:05 pm

    Yes, the target bow is lovely and I have studied Gallwey's essay on them for a long time but my hand is still nearly useless. I need to get it working better, or build some jigs so others can make the cuts / mortises I can't manage yet.
    At this time a rolling nut in a bearing, and a long tickler seems more within my dexterity. I have a nut from an earlier attempt at a crossbow. When I can move my hand more freely, the target bow will be attempted, but with simpler sights

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    Re: SCA Target crossbow

    Post by 8fingers on Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:19 am

    It looks like the throw of the set trigger I have is less than 3/8". I will have to come up with a linkage or something to move a trigger transfer bar far enough to release a nut. Next option might be to buy a trigger kit and make a longer final bar, maybe enlarge the end until it is a hammer?

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    Re: SCA Target crossbow

    Post by 8fingers on Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:54 pm

    Found this clip with crossbows from about 30 seconds to about 45 seconds but there are some rich details for the medieval crowd.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KPIeAfu6JA&NR=1
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    Re: SCA Target crossbow

    Post by Paulius on Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:37 pm

    Sorry for offtopic, but you must be joking about rich details for medieval crowd Laughing . Crossbows doesn't look good too.

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    Re: SCA Target crossbow

    Post by 8fingers on Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:29 pm

    For someone who is looking for something besides overly decorated German hunting bows that were never intended to be used and late period target bows I got the following.
    Munition grade weapons with a very practical fore end and how they were used.
    A crossbow sight similar to one I saw on a German target bow
    Metal reinforcing plates on the locks but I didn't see ticklers- did they use a trigger? or were they just bad movie props? In any case what inspired them if the rest of the arms and armor were more period? Yes, I noticed most of the crossbows weren't spanned. Also for metal prods they were quite long. Why? I would like to know more of the history.
    The stocks (butt end )were gabled and notched for a thumb rest.
    Quick glimpse of the foot stirrup and mount of the prod on the crossbow with the sights @ 40 second mark leaves me wondering about how the prod was mounted, and from the pins through the stock, how it was spanned.
    I'm a noobie, but I have traveled to major museums in Germany, Switzerland and the Doges Palace in Venice, and studied what medieval resources our small town library has, and handled a few target crossbows from Europe. I'm sure neither was much over 300yrs old, 400 tops.
    Forgive me for getting excited for something I haven't come across before in my little world.
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    Re: SCA Target crossbow

    Post by Paulius on Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:51 am

    I'm no specialist too, but this clip seems not very historically accurate. I think that most of the crossbows showed are only props (mabe except that one with sights).

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    Re: SCA Target crossbow

    Post by 8fingers on Thu May 05, 2011 11:23 pm

    Had an idea, need some feedback. have some moose palm, want to make a nut.
    Thought I would cut out a piece, screw it down to a piece big piece of plywood. Chuck a router bit into my drill press and slide the antler back and forth under it until its flat on one side, flip it over, repeat, use hole saw to cut out some disks, laminate them to build a nut.
    Safety check. Use all personal protective gear, vac up dust. Take very small bites at each pass. Use bigger piece of antler than I need so I can keep working areas away from countersunk screws.
    Looking for advice, tips warnings. cyclops
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    Re: SCA Target crossbow

    Post by Todd the archer on Fri May 06, 2011 3:35 am

    Probably could use a lathe. Something I don't have Crying or Very sad . So I use a drill press and a farrier's rasp to make my wood nuts. I rough cut a circle out on a band saw then chuck it up in the drill press. I have a board with two blocks spaced on either side 3/4" from center line. This is clamped on the drill press. The blocks ares stops for the farriers rasp. Then while it is spinning I slowly work it down until I am against the stops. May not be the best way. If any one else has Ideas please share.

    Todd
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    Re: SCA Target crossbow

    Post by mac on Fri May 06, 2011 9:20 am

    I've made a couple of nuts using a hole saw and a block of Micarta. This worked OK, but the Micarta had a tendency to split along its laminations in use. I ended up putting a couple of flush headed rivets through the thickness of the nut.

    When you get right down to it, nothing beats a lathe for making nuts. I feel sure that it's the historically accurate thing as well.

    Todd,
    Here's one you might consider....$200 or best offer
    http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/tls/2365422170.html

    Mac
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    Re: SCA Target crossbow

    Post by juancheco on Mon May 09, 2011 10:23 am


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    Re: SCA Target crossbow

    Post by 8fingers on Tue May 10, 2011 7:55 pm

    There are a few ways to do turning on a drill press too. You need to make a tool rest and if the piece is long , a bearing / center for the other end. check this out while I look for the site I had in mind.
    http://www.vintageprojects.com/lathe-milling-plans.html

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    Drill Press Lathe attachment

    Post by 8fingers on Tue May 10, 2011 8:20 pm

    There are a dozen variants on this theme, just work slowly with light passes because the sideways thrust is going to wear out your drill press's bearings in a hurry if you over do it.
    http://www.originalfurnitureplans.com/plan/Tools/verilathe.htm
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    Re: SCA Target crossbow

    Post by cmgower on Wed May 11, 2011 10:05 am

    The Nut that I made for my bow is made of corian made from three corian coutertop samples epoxied together. I Roughed them up with an 80 grit sand paper and glued them togther using clear epoxy. I cut out the nut using the methon that Mac stated before a holesaw, and reinforced the nut with a piece of threaded rod to prevent tearout from the tickler.
    The samples can be obtained at any local supply house. Each sample is 2"x2" and 7/16 thick. the samples come in all different colors so you can get something close to antler color. I used white samples.
    The prod on my bow is 150# from Alchem. So far the nut has held up great!
    http://thearbalistguild.forumotion.com/t288p15-central-european-sporting-bow#2106
    CMG
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    Re: SCA Target crossbow

    Post by Todd the archer on Wed May 11, 2011 5:08 pm

    I thought of using corian, but was worried it might be too heavy. Ha, I used to work at a shop that made corian countertops. Dupont makes glue just for corian in colors to match the material. Probably the best color for making nuts would be bone. Had a falling out with the owner, don't know if he would help me out with material. Might have to stop in and see.

    Todd

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    Re: SCA Target crossbow

    Post by 8fingers on Mon May 30, 2011 11:00 pm

    Just looking at the crossbow building wiki: Bow irons,and started thinking that if the filler piece in the 'open' end of the bow irons was made over sized, it could be drilled and tapped to make bow irons like Gallwey shows on page 221 of his book, but I thought I would rather use socket head cap screws than the tommy bar screws he shows.
    Might make inletting simpler, trade time making wedges and guards for drilling and tapping the irons. Will have to talk to a mill wright tomorrow and see which he thinks easier.
    The throw of my set trigger is pretty short so I will have to look at more levers or more modern locks.

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