Crossbows - Everything about Building, Modding, and Using your Crossbow Gear

Latest topics

» 15th century saxon prods
by stuckinthemud1 Today at 3:26 pm

» Yet another one
by jocky Today at 7:09 am

» Chinese crossbow with auxiliary string?
by c sitas Yesterday at 11:34 am

» Crusader crossbow
by c sitas Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:41 pm

» Whamo showed up, prod replacement ideas
by kenh Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:25 pm

» Renaissance Sporting crossbow
by tony a Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:10 am

» loose laminate issues
by c sitas Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:42 am

» Of Bows and Torsion Engines
by c sitas Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:55 pm

» My second crossbow
by Daniel Levesque Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:48 am

» Need to locate Windlass Crossbow, pre 1600, in Rome, Venice, or Florence
by 8fingers Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:24 pm

» Crossbow Projectiles
by Geezer Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:10 pm

» Greetings!
by OnlyHuman Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:40 am

» Anyone know what this is?
by Yuki23emma Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:54 pm

» Prod specs
by Onager Lovac Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:25 pm

» Finished Crossbow
by kenh Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:34 pm

» The Arbalist Guild - Around the World
by Turnigy Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:25 pm

» Reverse draw "compound" build
by Turnigy Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:20 pm

» Casting Resource
by White Oak Wed May 31, 2017 2:28 am

» The Road so far......
by White Oak Mon May 29, 2017 7:17 am

» GLOSSARY OF TERMS
by Onager Lovac Wed May 24, 2017 6:41 pm

» Hello from Maine
by White Oak Sun May 21, 2017 11:06 pm

» Leonardo Da Vinci string with suport-rolls
by Oppenheimer Tue May 16, 2017 11:40 am

» Compact repeating compound project
by Phil Abrahams Mon May 08, 2017 2:10 pm

» Trying to reduce the power stroke in my next project
by octavioaugusto.oliveira Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:27 pm

» Its good to be back!!
by Juan galeano Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:31 am


    Bolt or bind prod?

    Share

    coiner10
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows

    Posts : 15
    Join date : 2012-05-29
    Age : 20
    Location : Connecticut

    Bolt or bind prod?

    Post by coiner10 on Thu May 31, 2012 3:04 pm

    Which is better for a beginner with a limited access to tools? And how would one go about bolting the prod to the stock?
    avatar
    Gnome
    Crossbow Junkie

    I live here!


    Crossbow JunkieI live here!

    Posts : 399
    Join date : 2011-10-16
    Age : 53
    Location : Capitol Area Maryland

    Re: Bolt or bind prod?

    Post by Gnome on Thu May 31, 2012 4:23 pm

    Hi Coiner, welcome to the forum. What type of bow are you thinking of building? I've mounted prods with bow irons, and also mounted them in a socket with wooden wedges driven in to hold them in place. Neither method is complicated and can be done with hand tools, just requires precision to get the prod set straight, firm and true. I'm trying to get myself psyched up to do my first pure medieval build with a bound prod. I have a feeling that "tying one on" might be a bit like playing the harmonica- easy to do, but hard to do well!

    Gnome
    avatar
    Todd the archer
    Crossbow Junkie

    I live here!


    Crossbow JunkieI live here!

    Posts : 581
    Join date : 2010-02-25
    Age : 55
    Location : sellersville,pa.

    Re: Bolt or bind prod?

    Post by Todd the archer on Thu May 31, 2012 6:31 pm

    I am with Gnome tying in looksgood and is authentic but is time consuming, which would not be bad in itself except they tend to loosen over time. I have come to prefer the wedge method which seems to hold tight.



    Todd
    avatar
    stoneagebowyer
    Crossbow Junkie

    I live here!


    Crossbow JunkieI live here!

    Posts : 490
    Join date : 2011-01-12

    Re: Bolt or bind prod?

    Post by stoneagebowyer on Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:30 am

    I just did another binding job. It is not hard, but very time consuming. I found that thicker cordage is easier to manage (less tangling), and hemp really is my favorite mateiral after trying linen. I use a thicker cord for the bridle binding, and a smaller diameter cord for the wrapping. Each time you do it, you get better, just like anything else.
    avatar
    mac
    Master Weaponsmith
    Master Weaponsmith

    Posts : 560
    Join date : 2010-12-23
    Location : Near Philly USA

    Re: Bolt or bind prod?

    Post by mac on Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:17 am

    coiner10 wrote: Which is better for a beginner with a limited access to tools? And how would one go about bolting the prod to the stock?

    Coiner,

    It depends on where you are trying to go. If you are making a medieval or renaissance crossbow, then you should do what our ancestors would have done.

    If you are making a modern bow, you can do whatever is convenient for you.

    If you have, as you say, a limited shop, binding might well be easier.

    Mac

    coiner10
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows

    Posts : 15
    Join date : 2012-05-29
    Age : 20
    Location : Connecticut

    Re: Bolt or bind prod?

    Post by coiner10 on Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:24 am

    I want to have a medieval style stock with a steel prod at 150#. I also want the roller nut and lever to be steel. Other than that, I don't really want era the other stuff is from. A stirrup would be nice too.

    About how long does the lashing take? I'm really good at lashing stocks and stuff together at Boy scouts.
    avatar
    Basilisk120
    Moderator
    Moderator

    Posts : 548
    Join date : 2010-03-01
    Age : 38
    Location : Arizona

    Re: Bolt or bind prod?

    Post by Basilisk120 on Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:46 am

    It doesn't take too long to do a tie on Prod, if you have everything ready to go. Its hard to say exactly how long but once you get it down then the next one will go faster.

    The nice part about it is, you can do this while watching a movie or something so that will make it seem likes going a bit quicker.


    As for the steel roller nut. I would recommend looking at using Delrin -something like: http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-acetal-homopolymer-rods/=hsf0h7
    It will be lighter and easier to work with than steel and will be more than strong enough. There are a couple of different ways to install a steel sear plate into the Roller. One is to cut a groove and install a flat plate and the other is using a threaded rod with a sear nock cut into it. There should be examples of both floating around the site.



    Something Something Dark Side

    coiner10
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows

    Posts : 15
    Join date : 2012-05-29
    Age : 20
    Location : Connecticut

    Re: Bolt or bind prod?

    Post by coiner10 on Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:40 am

    I'm planning on buying the nut roller and lever since I'm moving, but for for my next bow I' going to try to make everything.

    coiner10
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows

    Posts : 15
    Join date : 2012-05-29
    Age : 20
    Location : Connecticut

    Re: Bolt or bind prod?

    Post by coiner10 on Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:05 pm

    Is it better to hollow out a space for the nut in the stock from the top or drill a hole for it from the side?
    avatar
    stoneagebowyer
    Crossbow Junkie

    I live here!


    Crossbow JunkieI live here!

    Posts : 490
    Join date : 2011-01-12

    Re: Bolt or bind prod?

    Post by stoneagebowyer on Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:27 pm

    The answer your first question, it takes me about 1.5 hours give or take to do the binding. Just take your time and have fun with it. Cord management will make yoru life easier, as the cords love to get all tangled up like a mutant octopus.

    Regarding the rolling nut socket, if you make the tiller (stock) from two pieces and laminate them, after locating where your socket, drill each half half the depth of the nut. Nothing hard about hit. Be sure and clamp your workpiece to the drill press, and measure more than once to be certain you are accurate. Remember that wood expands and contracts with humidity, time of the year, etc. so too tight a socket will lead to problems.

    Dane

    coiner10
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows

    Posts : 15
    Join date : 2012-05-29
    Age : 20
    Location : Connecticut

    Re: Bolt or bind prod?

    Post by coiner10 on Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:11 pm

    1.5 hours isn't too bad, and just to be clear on the nut socket you lay the stock down on its side and half way through it on each side?
    avatar
    Todd the archer
    Crossbow Junkie

    I live here!


    Crossbow JunkieI live here!

    Posts : 581
    Join date : 2010-02-25
    Age : 55
    Location : sellersville,pa.

    Re: Bolt or bind prod?

    Post by Todd the archer on Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:55 pm

    I think what Dane means is to use 2 boards and before glueing together bore the holes from the inside out to speak. If you do this you might as well inlet the tickler passage at the same time.

    If using a single piece of wood and boreing from the side it should look something like this:





    The mortised rectangle is for a wood filler plate which can be glue or screwed on.



    Todd

    coiner10
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows

    Posts : 15
    Join date : 2012-05-29
    Age : 20
    Location : Connecticut

    Re: Bolt or bind prod?

    Post by coiner10 on Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:12 pm

    I see it now thanks for the picture Todd. I'm probably going to do that but maybe replace the wooden side panels with metal.
    avatar
    jds6
    Workshop Savvy

    Did you see my tool collection?


    Workshop SavvyDid you see my tool collection?

    Posts : 197
    Join date : 2011-10-18
    Age : 54
    Location : Dallas,TX

    Re: Bolt or bind prod?

    Post by jds6 on Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:23 pm

    I just finished my second build and used the binding method. I was not all that hard to do. It took about two hours for me ( tangled a lot ) but again it was my first.
    If you use this method of binding the prod, be sure to pull it TIGHT!!!!
    After shooting my bow a couple of dozen times it seemed to loosen a bit.
    Had to redo the binding. Good luck in which ever method you choose.

    jds6

    coiner10
    Fresh Blood

    Doesn't mean
    I'm new to crossbows


    Fresh Blood Doesn't meanI'm new to crossbows

    Posts : 15
    Join date : 2012-05-29
    Age : 20
    Location : Connecticut

    Re: Bolt or bind prod?

    Post by coiner10 on Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:07 am

    Thank you everyone. It looks like I'm going to bind it.
    avatar
    ferdinand
    Crossbow Junkie

    I live here!


    Crossbow JunkieI live here!

    Posts : 301
    Join date : 2012-04-24

    Re: Bolt or bind prod?

    Post by ferdinand on Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:28 am

    About that loosening, maybe if u use leather bindings wich u soak in water it will solfe that problem. The leather will tighten when it goes dry.
    But this is just a theory, maybe someone has done this before?
    avatar
    Lightly
    Master Crossbowyer
    Master Crossbowyer

    Posts : 199
    Join date : 2010-01-12
    Age : 57
    Location : Austin, Tx

    Re: Bolt or bind prod?

    Post by Lightly on Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:43 am

    Coiner;
    Here are some photos of how I tie in bows... Lately, I have been soaking the hemp cord in water, and tying it on wet, and it appears to dry tighter... messy, tho! I wrap a towel around the stick just under the binding hole.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/swifthoundbows/sets/72157622267795263/
    It takes me about an hour or two to tie on a prod.

    I have yet to have any loosen on me, and I am up to nearly 80+ bows made now.

    The dowel really helps, and I figure if I don't break the cord at least once every few bows that I tie in, then I Am Doing It Wrong.
    We use the thicker hemp, looks much better, and tangles much less.

    Remember that this is only ONE way! And, there may be better ways out there...

    Good luck!

    Lightly
    avatar
    stoneagebowyer
    Crossbow Junkie

    I live here!


    Crossbow JunkieI live here!

    Posts : 490
    Join date : 2011-01-12

    Re: Bolt or bind prod?

    Post by stoneagebowyer on Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:49 am

    Nice photo essay, Lightly. And now I know what you look like. Very cool tattooes.

    chaz
    Workshop Savvy

    Did you see my tool collection?


    Workshop SavvyDid you see my tool collection?

    Posts : 290
    Join date : 2012-04-13
    Age : 68
    Location : Texas

    Re: Bolt or bind prod?

    Post by chaz on Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:10 am

    Lightly,

    Looked at the prod binding link. Dang girl! That ain't your first rodeo! Very educational !

    Thank You!

    Chaz
    avatar
    Lightly
    Master Crossbowyer
    Master Crossbowyer

    Posts : 199
    Join date : 2010-01-12
    Age : 57
    Location : Austin, Tx

    Re: Bolt or bind prod?

    Post by Lightly on Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:52 am

    Thanks, folks, just hope it all helps..

    I originally took those photos just for ME, to help me remember how to do things, and Geezer thought it was a good thing to do as well...
    And, as I said, this is how we do it in THIS shop. We have to walk a fine line between being as accurate as possible, and trying to make a living selling affordable bows.
    I am hoping to do some 'fancier' bows soon, more reproduction of specific bows, to challenge my skills.
    Mac and some others have dropped some great info on things I needed to know, and that has been immensely helpful.
    Unlike many other forums I have belonged to, this one is remarkably supportive and helpful, and, I really appreciate that.

    Best!

    Lightly
    avatar
    stoneagebowyer
    Crossbow Junkie

    I live here!


    Crossbow JunkieI live here!

    Posts : 490
    Join date : 2011-01-12

    Re: Bolt or bind prod?

    Post by stoneagebowyer on Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:17 pm

    Lightly, I am curious about how tight or loose your stirrups are, once you finish binding them on with hemp? Is there little or a lot of up and down play, or are they rock steady, or something in between?

    Dane
    avatar
    Lightly
    Master Crossbowyer
    Master Crossbowyer

    Posts : 199
    Join date : 2010-01-12
    Age : 57
    Location : Austin, Tx

    Re: Bolt or bind prod?

    Post by Lightly on Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:28 pm

    There is sometimes a tiny bit of play, sometimes it is rock hard... It can loosen up, and often we just put a thin wedge under the stirrup to tighten it up, or, if it is really bad, simply re-bind it all.

    As I said, as far as I know, none of my bows have had the binding loosen up, such that the prod becomes loose, but it does happen that the stirrup can get loose...

    I am interested in becoming better at weaving that leather "cap" on, and wondering, if when it dries after the weaving, that can help hold the stirrup more stable...

    Lightly
    avatar
    mac
    Master Weaponsmith
    Master Weaponsmith

    Posts : 560
    Join date : 2010-12-23
    Location : Near Philly USA

    Re: Bolt or bind prod?

    Post by mac on Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:40 pm

    Lightly,

    As far as I can tell, the woven leather is not just a cap, but the thing that holds the stirrup on.

    It's like they separated the binding functionaly into two distinct components. The first is the hemp cord that holds the prod to the tiller, and second is the leather braiding that holds the stirrup to the prod.

    ....and yes, if you use damp raw hide for the braid, it will get tighter as it dries.

    Mac
    avatar
    Lightly
    Master Crossbowyer
    Master Crossbowyer

    Posts : 199
    Join date : 2010-01-12
    Age : 57
    Location : Austin, Tx

    Re: Bolt or bind prod?

    Post by Lightly on Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:59 pm

    Ah! Yes, of course! We use a second length of hemp to hold the stirrup on, but, on thinking on it, and seeing the diagram you made of the probable "original" way of binding the prod on, yes, they must have used the hemp for the prod, and the rawhide "cap" to hold on the stirrup.
    And I have GOT to practice your diagram...

    Thank you, Mac, again! I really appreciate your knowledge.
    All of our skills can only improve thru learning from each other.

    Best!

    Lightly
    avatar
    stoneagebowyer
    Crossbow Junkie

    I live here!


    Crossbow JunkieI live here!

    Posts : 490
    Join date : 2011-01-12

    Re: Bolt or bind prod?

    Post by stoneagebowyer on Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:43 pm

    Lightly, I have done three bows with the woven cap using rawhide. Each time it gets easier and more professional looking, but I still refer to Mac's illustration so I dont get lost. You of course soak it and then do the weaving while the material is wet and mallible. The nice thing is you can adjust the stirrup a bit as it dries, so if it is crooked, you have time to correct it. The stuff dries very hard, and there is very little play once it is done. Now, our Italian friend just showed off his German bow, and as far as I can tell, he used fine quality leather, not rawhide, and I wonder how much play he has in his stirrup, if any.

    Dane

    Sponsored content

    Re: Bolt or bind prod?

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:34 pm