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    very very begining of a medeival crossbow

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    Post by edstuff Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:58 pm

    very very begining of a medeival crossbow 21bkgx
    very very begining of a medeival crossbow 2q32ej9

    This is the start of the nut. I still need to cut in a string groove and trim down the piece that will hold the trigger.  The trigger will be formed from 3/8 Ø round bar.  I'll probably purchase the prod somewhere.  Maybe a 120# or lower if I can find it since this will not have a safety.  Be gentle guys it's my first project.
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    Post by Jim McCoin Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:16 pm

    Are the washers a different thicknesses for a reason? Just curious.

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    Post by edstuff Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:06 am

    Yeah they're slightly different in thickness. Not for any reason just because it's what I had.
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    Post by Todd the archer Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:11 pm

    Hey your off to a start! What do you plan to use for an axle? Be aware that the axle is fairly close to the surface of the deck or rail, too big an axle might tear out if not set in some sort of reinforcing plate.

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    Post by edstuff Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:22 pm

    Thanks Todd! Do you mean the trigger mechanism? I was going to use a round bar of the same diameter as the stopper part of the nut. If that's not what you meant does someone have a pic? I'm very very new to this.
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    Post by kenh Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:10 pm

    The axle is the steel dowel upon which the nut will spin.  What's the diameter of the hole in the center of the washers?
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    Post by edstuff Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:27 am

    Ohhhhh I getcha.  That will also be a 3/8Ø steel round bar.  The hole in the center of the washers is 9/16".  However, the small tube on the inside has an ID just a little over 3/8".  So there's a tiny bit of play on the axle but just barely.
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    Post by Jim McCoin Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:44 am

    I'm new to the forum and am following your work, I'm curious if you have looked at photos or drawings on how medieval crossbow nuts work?

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    Post by edstuff Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:33 pm

    Yes I have done some research
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    Post by kenh Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:16 pm

    So, edstuff, I have to ask.  What are you going to fill the center of your nascent roller nut with??  Virtually all the roller nuts I've seen are a solid cylinder of material (horn, Delrin, steel/bronze, wood etc) on the order of 1.5" in diameter and 1.5" thick, with on the order of a 1/4" hole in the center for the axle.  I've seen roller nuts made from many washers welded or brazed together to make a cylinder, but nothing shaped like you have there...
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    Post by edstuff Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:27 pm

    I don't know why I didn't think of doing many together.  As far as what I will fill them with I don't know.  I'm a newbie to crossbows and this is my first project so I'm making it up as I go along.  
    I've got an idea of the design of it.  It's in the attached sketch. 
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    Post by kenh Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:57 pm

    Right concept, edstuf.  That's what we call a roller nut and tickler (the long pivoted arm).  But you sketch is ignoring what's happening between the two edges of the nut.  It's not holloed down the center, but rather notched to accept the end of the tickler, just as the top of the nut is notched and slotted to hold the string and bolt.  

    If you look about half way down this page
      
    https://thearbalistguild.forumotion.com/t189p15-roller-nut-material?highlight=roller+nut

    you'll see a walnut roller nut. Notice that the nut is not hollowed completely between the edges. There is a notch for the tickler end, reinforced by the brass plate, plus the upper notch for the string and bolt.  

    The roller nut as you've built it does not have any way to catch and hold the end of the tickler.
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    Post by Rizzar Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:02 am

    Ha, finaly I got a clue what you are doing.... Very Happy
     


    The round bar whelded to the washers is intended to be the trigger notch/stop once you cut it down to the radius? Would have been better to use a flat surface at the trigger instead of a round one.

    Personnally I must admit I was not confident at the first time I saw your pics, but there is some interesting concept in it.
    I do have concerns about the thickness of the washers. To accomodate the string they should be soft rounded to prevent damage to it, so ensure it is done really good with those narrow things. Anyway thicker ones would be better for the string, but worse for the weight.

    I think -as long as I am not totally confused right now- , your nut can benefit from a relatively low rotating mass due to its non solid design.

    But to be clear, that kind of nut is nowhere near medieval as pointed out in your headline... 

    I´d suggest to build a nut the standard way many of the threads around show.

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    Post by edstuff Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:12 am

    I see what you guys are saying. I'm going to add another piece to catch the tickler.  For now I'm going to use this and possibly add some filler to it later.  Maybe I'll even add steel and weld it in, then grind flush so it looks solid
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    Post by Jim McCoin Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:48 am

    The round bar you are using for the sear is not a good Idea, most people use a flat plate in the nut and the flat area on the end of a square tickler. the contact area of the three I've built is about .060 to .080 and polished just like on a firearm.

    You will find most nuts do not have an axle but rotate in a close fitting socket, they can have a length of string or a small metal pin through the center to keep them from falling out when rotated. The flat area behind the hooks which allows the string to sit flat on the deck will allow them to fall out.

    My .02 worth.

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    Last edited by Jim McCoin on Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:50 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)
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    Post by edstuff Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:06 am

    What if I ground the end of the tickler to match the diameter of the round bar? And also ground the top of the contact surface flat and welded another flat plate to catch it at the top?
    Does that make sense or should I draft it?
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    Post by Jim McCoin Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:27 am

    A flat square edge is easier to match to a flat square edge when creating a sear than a curved one.

    All this information is on the internet, in fact everything you need is on the internet, from binding the prod to the tiller to using bone on the flight deck Smile

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    Post by kenh Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:46 am

    Frankly edstuff, I think spend less effort  if you'd  dropp back to ground zero and start a new nut, made they way they've been made for hundreds of years.  Get a feel for how things were done before you re-invent the wheel (or the nut) smack .  Nothing wrong with an all steel nut.  If you can find a piece of 1.5" round stock about 1-2" long that would be perfect.  Or braze together a stack of small hole washers or disks to equal 1.5" long x 1.5" diameter
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    Post by Jim McCoin Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:26 pm

    And you might want to look at 1.5" forstner style cutters for the socket.

    Everything Kenh said is right on.

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    Post by phuphuphnik Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:48 pm

    I just bought a forstner for this. I have used it on oak, pine, and maple. It is a wonderful bit. There are a couple different blade shapes, I chose the serrated kind, as I worries some woods I use would splinter rather than chip so I wanted more teeth. Just a thunk.

    I have a bit of 1.5" delrin I would be willing to send you a 1" hunk of the stuff, enough for a nut. You;ll have to face it, but I can drill a hole down the centre.
    chriso


    Last edited by phuphuphnik on Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by edstuff Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:58 pm

    Is that a wood drill bit? I don't know much about carpentry.
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    Post by Jim McCoin Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:15 pm

    If you work in a fab shop you must have access to a drill press, all you need is a chuck that will take a 1/2" drill bit.

    Most people I have met don't just build one crossbow, so if you buy the Forstner bit you'll build more than one Wink

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    Post by phuphuphnik Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:27 pm

    Overkill answer to your question: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Forstner
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    Post by kenh Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:53 pm

    Yes Forstner bits are wood bits used primarily for cutting larger diameter (1/2" to 4") holes with clean entry and exit.
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    Post by Jim McCoin Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:59 am

    edstuff wrote:Is that a wood drill bit? I don't know much about carpentry.

    Hey Edstuff,

    I'm also a welder/fabricator and would be more than happy to answer  welding and fabrication questions. You must realize there are rules you must follow if you want a crossbow that shoots flat and straight.

    Jim

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