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» 12th Century Chinese Crossbow Chronographed
by stuckinthemud1 Fri Nov 24, 2023 3:50 pm

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» [solved]Skane/Lillohus crossbow thread
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» Troubleshooting
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» Wood Prods
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» Colletiere a Charavines crossbow
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» Qin/Han lock drawings
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» stirrup dimensions?
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» Skane/Lillohus lockbow information needed
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4 posters

    Lillohus crossbow

    Dark Factor
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    • Post n°1

    Lillohus crossbow Empty Lillohus crossbow

    Post by Dark Factor Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:47 am

    Does someone has some information/dimensions about Lillohus crossbow.
    I always find the same plan, but without dimension or more explaination of it.
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    • Post n°2

    Lillohus crossbow Empty Re: Lillohus crossbow

    Post by kenh Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:52 am

    I'm not familiar with this one.  Can't find any reference to Lilohus or Lillohus...
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    • Post n°3

    Lillohus crossbow Empty Re: Lillohus crossbow

    Post by Dark Factor Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:12 am

    I only find these drawings : http://www.donjon.ru/product/arbalet-krestjanskij-1525-g-iz-kristianstada-ks/
    It looks like old archeological drawings but no scales or more informations (wood species...)
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    • Post n°4

    Lillohus crossbow Empty Re: Lillohus crossbow

    Post by kenh Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:26 pm

    That is what the English speaking crossbow world refers to as a Skane bow.  The archaeological sketches were made at a 1941 dig in Skane, the southernmost province of Sweden.  The dig dated back to the 1500s.   We also refer to this as a "pinlock" or "pushpin" because of the simple but effective way the action operates.  You can Search on that here and find several references to that type of action, including my description of building the crossbow shown in my Avatar photo.
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    • Post n°5

    Lillohus crossbow Empty Re: Lillohus crossbow

    Post by Dark Factor Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:33 pm

    Oh, Ok, I understand why I didn't find this anywhere if my search weren't on the correct name. Thanks for your reply. I'll search...
    The bow is in yew?
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    • Post n°6

    Lillohus crossbow Empty Re: Lillohus crossbow

    Post by kenh Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:11 pm

    The original Skane prod could have been yew.   Taxus bacatta, the European Yew is native to the southern coastal reaches of Sweden and Norway.  However, the northern Swedes and Norse had a thousand year history of building a two-wood bow comprised of a birch back and a belly of 'compression' pine glued together with fish bladder (not hide) glue.  I've not seen any actual data on the Lilohus dig, so I'm not sure which was actually used.

    The Skane or pinlock action has been used with a wide variety of wood, metal, and fiberglass materials over the past five hundred or more years.
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    • Post n°7

    Lillohus crossbow Empty Re: Lillohus crossbow

    Post by Dark Factor Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:15 am

    Yes, there is taxus baccata in Europe from North to South. Medieval english bowyers had to import Yew from Spain has they used too much at the end of Middle Ages.
    There is a french medieval book that says "yew is good for nothing except making bow and crossbows".

    Collagen glues are strong but diluted by water... that's why it's a problem in most part of Europe (and especially where I live) because you can't have always the good weather to use it. We find in very cold climates where it almost never really rain or around mediterrean sea.
    The crossbow has been found in a extrem southern part of Sweden, so glue is certainly not the best solution for bows at this place... just my opinion.

    The Charavine crossbow found in France (XIth century, I think) has a lock similar but unlocked by upside of the tiller. That's clearly the easiest way to make a crossbow lock, but this certainly make loose accuracy (I suppose or they could use it more often later).
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    • Post n°8

    Lillohus crossbow Empty Re: Lillohus crossbow

    Post by hullutiedemies Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:39 am

    http://armborst.forum24.se/armborst-about42.html


    Lillöhusborstets träbåge är 92 cm lång, 4 cm bred och 3,5 cm tjock.
    Stocken är 81 cm lång.
    29,5 cm bakom framänden är ett "stränghak" där strängen låses fast i väntan på avtryck.
    Stocken är av ek och bågen av ask.

    Length 92cm
    4 cm wide
    3,5 thick
    29,5 cm total draw length
    Tiller 81 cm long.
    Bow is claimed to be ash not yew.

    Some photos of original and what is said to be a dummy reconstruction
    http://armborst.forum24.se/armborst-about42-0-asc-25.html

    Note, the string on that reconstruction is not under any tension. Original brace height is not known.

    There is another viking age prod found at Åsby ( I assume this is Halland Åsby just northside of Scania ) made of regular fir (Picea abies) , 117cm long, 50 mm wide, 31 mm thick.


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    • Post n°9

    Lillohus crossbow Empty Re: Lillohus crossbow

    Post by Geezer Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:00 am

    Thanks for the measurements: they're about what I expected, but still it's good to have suspicions confirmed.  Geezer
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    • Post n°10

    Lillohus crossbow Empty Re: Lillohus crossbow

    Post by Dark Factor Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:12 am

    thanks Hullu,
    Yes, that's dimensions I was supposing even if I'm not sure the dimensions aren't the one of the reconstruction crossbow and not the original one. The bow of the reconstruction looks like Ash.

    I've started a Charavine crossbow some months ago with true dimensions and I've realised that all the ones I've seens before weren't on the good size because the true one really look like a toy ! 49cm (19") long for the tiller ! ...
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    • Post n°11

    Lillohus crossbow Empty Re: Lillohus crossbow

    Post by Geezer Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:21 pm

    I haven't been able to find reliable info on the Charavine crossbow, but indeed 19 inches for a prod is quite small.  There are some small Spanish bows with short prods, but they are steel, and quite stout.  The original Padre Island bows have prods @ 20 inches long, 3/8 in. thick and an inch wide.  19 inches on a wooden prod would probably make it a toy bow.  But in fact, I've always had serious doubts about that thumb-release on top for anything heavier than a light recreational bow...it might be enough for squirrels/birds/rabbits.  Geezer.
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    • Post n°12

    Lillohus crossbow Empty Re: Lillohus crossbow

    Post by Dark Factor Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:45 pm

    yes, archeologist don't know if the Charavine crossbow is a toy or a classical crossbow. they have found one bow close that could be used on the tiller (because it adapt on it) wich is is about 90cm long (if I remember well) and also 3 size of 'nuts' (not classical ones). the smaller can enter into the hole of the tiller, but other ones are bigger. So we could imagine it existed bigger crossbows than the found one.
    We could never been sure, but each time I see the Charavine it's 70-80cm long, but when you make it at correct size, it looks totally different you have it on your fist and don't use like a cross.
    I have the information on a book ("les armes du Diable") but I have to find the book. I think the bow is made in yew.
    The tiller is short but the draw length isn't so short compared with end Medieval crossbows. The handle is just very short and has you shoot with the upper side, you can't handle like classical crossbows
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    Lillohus crossbow Empty Re: Lillohus crossbow

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