Crossbow triggers

First topic message reminder :

I often hear or read where folks are wanting to improve their crossbow trigger and in particular make the pull smoother and perhaps a bit lighter. And whilst understanding that the loads applied to a crossbow trigger when cocked, can be vastly more than those on a firearm trigger, there are some things that remain constant and are just as applicable to our needs. The following video from Brownell's wonderful website is most informative and provides much insight into how certain parts should operate together.




Pavise

Well for instance is the positioning of the trigger in relation to the
release, could that maybe an ergonomic thing bringing into consideration
the design of the stock and it's relation to all components and how
that is held for different applications? Example different for the
hunting x-bow vs. target competition x-bow vs. military all vs.
historical vs. modern?

You are correct, it's all about evolution...this whole thing with triggers being set in front of/above/behind the grip is pretty much all related to the introduction of the pistol grip and the increases in draw length.

Here's the basic comparison of the above mentioned variations...a little exaggerated for the sake of example, but close enough to reality.


...don't try to pull the second trigger in the list as a legit medieval though...it's a recent variation (as far as I know )

My experience tells me that for a while talk and a scratch pad are cheap compared to materials.

*Someone* has to make an investment.

I've been working with some forum members on a trigger design that can be made with simple power/hand tools and materials available in most hardware stores. Well, we're 99% through the loop with the design and 90% with the construction.



I'll have a tutorial topic with all the tool/material requirements and template downloads written up eventually, but don't let that stop you from research while that's cooking. Definitely give attention to both the modern and traditional bows, there is much you can learn easier from one than the other at times, so they basically complement each other in that respect.

Good Luck,

Ivo

PS: Mac is the man when it comes to Medieval Arms & Armour...if you have or ever get the bug to go for a legit medieval bow >>> Mac is the man.

Looks like Ivo seems to have covered it pretty well. It looks like it the main factor is stock shape, followed by lock design. Some stock shapes just won't allow the trigger to be in front of the lock unless you want your hand in the path of the string.



I'm not sure the second crossbow in Ivo's drawing is correct. There are medival crossbows with triggers but the trigger is always behind the lock. ( waiting for someone to have an example of an exception to that)



Ivo- Glad to hear the trigger hasn't been forgotten about. Can't wait to see it in action. Let me know what help you need.

Yeh, that second one is not a legit historical variation, it's something one of our friends uses on his Pistol bows.

AboMickey wrote:

It's unique, so I thought it would be fun to throw it in the mix.

Ivo- Glad to hear the trigger hasn't been forgotten about. Can't wait to see it in action. Let me know what help you need.

Haha, thanks! 3am when I get back from work so tired that even the lightest wind would tip me over and i stilled squeezed out 5-10 minutes to put in some work for that project....that's devotion man.

And I still got much much more on my mind...just need more time and of course your support guys...light the fuze we will and blast this mother when it's done.

There will be a topic when I get a minute to sit down again...so short on time these days that it's embarrassing mates.

Ivo

Some excellent information here in this thread.

Where does one obtain small pistol crossbow prods? Way down the road, making one would be a nice project.

Dane

Is there more info. as to how to incorporate a safety mechanism ? Of course my take on it is that anyone knowledgeable of crossbows would understand that they are so dangerous, they're safe.

Thanks

Chaz

Dane, check out Blangas' thread https://thearbalistguild.forumotion.com/t486p15-first-crossbow-first-post-australia#5338 to see a nifty little steel prod, and I think Ivo posted a link to an Ebay page to buy them. I got a half dozen, plus a couple fiberglass bows that are pistol-sized. I started my first pistol build last weekend and it is a fun diversion from the "real thing-" for me it's almost like making a functional scale model of a crossbow. A couple interesting thing about this steel prod, the tips are not upswept at all, so I had to rotate the prod socket over 15 degrees. That could be a disadvantage, but an advantage would be how easy it would be to "nest" additional cut-down prods to add leaves for more potential power.

Chaz, my feelings are when someone gets complacent and then stops thinking, that is when things can get dangerous with crossbows, power tools (uggg), changing a fuse, etc.

Thanks, Gnome. I have zero time right now, but a small pistol crossbow will be a nice later in the year project. Maybe I can add a little folding bayonete I can use to blind enemies and also spread cheese on little crackers at a cocktail party, or a laser pointer so I can look for Sara Conner. And a poison well in the butt so I can then dip my bolts in it. You can't be too safe with poisoned bolts.

I was thinking of a holy water flask in the butt, and silver broadheads to dip in it. You know, just in case.

And it so happens that the crossbow is in the shape of a...cross! Are you sure you are not Peter Vincent, Vampire Slayer?

Peter Vincent wishes he had my undead-puttin'-down skilz. Uh huh.

But do you have the cool suitcase vampire slaying kit, complete with mirror and crusifix? Peter Vincent rules, better than Van Helsing.

Which reminds me, you occasionally see undead protection kits from the 19th century, with vials for holy water, pistol with silver bullets and so on. They were I guess sold to gullible tourist heading Transalvania way. I'd love to acquire one one day. They are better than those "mermaids" they made out of a monkey top and a fish bottom.

Dane

Stoneagebowyer,

Ditto on that, one must be aware of and know his workplace at all times

Chaz

Is there more info. as to how to incorporate a safety mechanism ?

Yep...that would be in the Crossbow Building Resources & FAQ section. Happy hunting!

Ivo

PS: Vampire Slayers? This might be a bit of a surprise for you, but this guild is governed by a Vampire Lord.

...however, we might be able to negotiate a truth.

Every project you do ... put your blood and sweat into it. Bleeding for our Art is really a small price to pay.

Thou shall not suffer a vampyr to live. My credo, and one that has never failed me. Therefore, down with this Lord of Blood Suckers. Particularly if they sparkle. Where is Blade when you need him? Though....Kate Beckinsale is one vampire I would allow to live. Perhaps we can invite her here.

I do agree about bleeding, however. I've driven chisels into my hand, and other fun. Getting blood on some materials can really stain them, but mostly it comes out with a bit of steel wool.

Be careful about getting your own blood into power machinery. That is often how those ghost in the machine stories go, with that very sacrifice being what is needed for a big steam press or whatever to go on a rampage and wipe out the 2nd shift.

Particularly if they sparkle. Where is Blade when you need him?

Indeed.

My crowd doesn't sparkle though ~ Reapers



...so it's best if Blade comes with some friends if we are to have a party.

Ok, enough of this madness. This is a triggers topic. ..still though, good stuff and we should do a topic with some creative writing, would love to read/participate in some vampire stories. Vamps are evil monsters full of pride, don't give us an easy death.

Not to leave off without a contribution...here's something I've sketched out a little while back.



Couldn't get it to work properly, so any suggestions are welcome.

Ivo

Got it to work, but damn it...like an idiot deleted the working file by accident.

This is the last glimpse I got of it...



The problem was so damn simple too.

The radius of the first link wouldn't let the roller get past a little annoying bump...



Roll in the erector set.... I've been working on and off on the German 5X trig...what a mind wrecking experience.

Once done we might get some study models 3D printed and perhaps get a few stainless or high carbon steel sets jet cut for those brave enough to try their hand at the heavy German boys...wouldn't it be something if we had those amazing triggers made to order?



Ahhh...dream on Ivo, dream on.

Ivo

Has anyone experimented using old insert tooling carbides for sears. They can be reworked with diamond stones and as long as they have a smooth edge, not sharp, they won't fracture. You can have crazy high loads on them, what they don't like is colliding at speed. You can get used ones by the bucket full.

Perhaps.

A few words of wisdom though...

All things in Nature seek balance. The longer the span between the two things being balanced, the harder the path.

Personally, I don't see the need for such extremes, if you can get your hands on bits, surely you can get some tool steel for about the same...and even then, in most cases, with a bit of careful design, you can substitute it with lower grade (cheaper) material.

Not trying to kill your high, the subject of triggers is definitely fascinating, but think about it...

I started this forum with Medieval bows on the front line for one reason and one reason only - *That's where it All began.* Widely available Low to Medium Grade materials vs. demands of practical applications of Hunting and War.

Try to keep this mindset and you will reap the benefits....or at least you will make a few Engineers on here happy that you didn't give into noobish overbuilding rage.

Back to the topic of nuts and sear plugs, guys talked about this and had quite a few smart things to say...check it out: Nuts and Sear Plugs

Good to have you on the team.

Happy Hunting!

Ivo

Cheers Ivo,
I just have a load of old tips I have chipped and the fact they have a fixing hole in the middle of them was just asking for a repurpose use. But yeah.... Noob fever

Hi all
My name is Doug and I am very new to this as I have never shot a crossbow in my life. However I do want to build a target/competition crossbow and have found this forum very interesting and usful, obviously there is a considerable amount of experience and expertise with the people involved.
I have an engineering background and have access to a lathe and milling machine and one of my hobbies is model making so hopefully the mechanics of manufacturing it should not be too much of a problem.
Where I am beaten is that I know nothing about crossbows (although I am an archer using a recurve) so any guidance for a plan of a decent target/competition bow that is compliant with NFAS /GNA rules would be greatfully recieved.
The above articles on triggers is really great and has caused me to think a lot about what I would like to use as I had been thinking about copying/adapting the mechanisime from a Compound Bow release aid. Do you think that there is any milage in this./
Finally can I ask if there are any plans that I can get hold of that will comply with rules .
Many thanks to those of you who do reply

Hi Doug;

I don't know about the GNA, but the only NFAS Shooting rule that I
can see which applies to crossbows is the
"no more than 300 fps" arrow/bolt speed.

NFAS Style/crossbow design rules are:

• No compound prods
  
• No aluminum alloy prods
  
• Minimum 14" bolt length
  
• Must have a "full trigger guard"
  
• Must have functioning manual or automatic safety
  
• Must have a bolt retainer clip
  
• No cocking aid other than a foot stirrup
  
• Only open sights or a fixed focus magnifying sight are permitted
  
• No shooting rest other than the archer's own body
  

Obviously you can't use an unguarded tickler or pin lock trigger lever, design but almost anything else goes.

Personally I think it would be fun to show up with a tech-tweaked medieval European or Asian crossbow and shoot the pants off the guys with the zillion dollar commercial bows.

Lots of ways to tech-tweak -- multi-lever locks, delrin bolt tracks, bolt materials, adjustable sights, etc. You're in fo a lot of fun!

Hello
I just "finished" my trigger design for my very first proper crossbow, and i wanted to get some feedback if possible.
The design should as the original have following features:
Safety
Auto reset of safety
Anty dryfire
Be able to take a 180 pound draw weight

Here is a picture

I have the original Google SketchUp file if someone wants it.

Many thanks to Jasonwemp for posting the design on youtube

This was asked elsewhere

A quick and dirty trigger that can be attached to a spanning device.
The frame is under tension load only , so it can be made of rope or wire..

Advantages
+cheap & light weight construction , no need to cut holes into tiller
+reliable
+heavy draw weight trigger can be constructed out of all organic materials
+consistent spanning, string can have loop to catch the tumbler hook & the trigger group can hook into the tiller from a single point

disadvantages
- slow reload, needs to be manually rearmed
- does not work well with a bolt clip
- pontential inaccuracy with light weight bow, frame can move during trigger pull jerking the string

Many years ago,when carbide tool bits were rarer than today,and more expensive,whenever we got hold of used tips,we used to smash them with a hammer,braze them onto mild steel shanks,and then grind then to shape for tipped boring bars,for use on the lathe,and in adjustable boring heads.If the brazing was done properly we never had a problem losing the tip.I think this method of attachment would also work for trigger bearing surfaces.
                                                           Hermit.

Hello Everybady!
We RDT crossbow ready for ...shootings   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbRFtO2KbjQ