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    Central European Crossbow, just starting

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    Post by stoneagebowyer Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:31 pm

    Central European Crossbow, just starting Socketdrill4Central European Crossbow, just starting Nutbindinghole-1Central European Crossbow, just starting Tickler10Central European Crossbow, just starting Tickler5Central European Crossbow, just starting Tickler4





    Hi, gang. Here are a few pictures of my latest project. The tiller is being constructed by laminating two 1.5" maple planks together. So far, I have the tiller profile roughly cut out, the nut socket is drilled into each side, the tickler channel is chiseled out, and the nut binding holes and tickler pivot pin hole is drilled. Next step is to laminate the tiller and begin shaping.

    I don't expect this project to take nearly as long as the first crossbow I built. I am expecting this to be in shooting form by early, early spring, if not sooner. Maple is one of my favorite hardwoods, and I expect this tiller with all the nice curves of a Central European bow to be easy on the eye. I have a 190# prod set aside for this weapon.

    More photos soon enough. Comments are welcome.
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    Post by Todd the archer Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:15 pm

    Looks good so far.

    Todd
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    Post by Wilhelm Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:05 pm

    I'm excited to see what you come up with! Based on your earlier comments, can e expect a bone top bow here? I don't think you'll have a lot of contrast between maple and bone, but it could be an interesting look.
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    Post by stoneagebowyer Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:57 am

    Thanks, Todd. And yes, Wilhelm, there will be a bone top. I expect an order to arrive this week. I think the light on light look will be really nice, and not seen much, as well. I'm considering other ways of decorating this bow, such as laminating a very thin sheet of a darker hardwood between the tiller and the bone surface, perhaps lignum vitae, or perhaps even color the edges of the bone. Brass highlights of some kind may be nice, too. As I begin shaping the stock, I will let inspiration be my guide, so I am not sure what will finally transpire until it happens. How is that for certainty? Smile
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    Post by Väinämöinen Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:17 am

    Greetings from Finland! Im building a new crossbow also, a Finnish model from around 1500. Previous one that I made is a german model from same era. In that one I used brass around the trigger mechanism. My avatar picture is just from that bow. Sorry about those bolts!!! It is almost impossible to get brass machine screws around here- havent found any yet.
    New bow has a lot more sophisticated trigger mechanism, Iĺl send some pictures when the holidays are over.
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    Post by stoneagebowyer Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:31 am

    Finland! I have always wanted to visit your country. I love vodka, too, perhaps that is part of why Smile

    That is a beautiful crossbow. I love the brass lockplate. As for the bolts, not that bad looking. Maybe you can paint them or darken them somehow to hide the steel look, so the match the tickler.
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    Post by Michael Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:09 am

    Stoneagebowyer: Good Morning see you coming along at a good pace. Came across a really good book the other day. "Crossbows in the Royal Netherlands Army Museum". It's author by one of Germanys bow builders, Jens Sensfelder. This guy is good knows his stuff. Well anyways his book has alot of in depth drawings in the book. Could be right up your alley. Amazon has them. One more thing: Mr. Sensfelder's book mapps out {diagrams) a four-axle set trigger lock. Also shows how the system works. Its all about the European crossbow historical and technical overview. See ya Mike
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    Post by stoneagebowyer Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:52 am

    Thanks, Mike. I will definatley have to get this book soon, it has been on my list of resources to acquire for a while.

    I just got a new computer, so I have to try downloading images of the latest work on this crossbow. The tiller is about 75% carved now.
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    Post by stoneagebowyer Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:16 am

    Central European Crossbow, just starting Tiller1582Central European Crossbow, just starting Tiller1572Central European Crossbow, just starting Tiller1562Central European Crossbow, just starting Tiller1382Central European Crossbow, just starting Tiller1362



    Downloading pictures is way easier with this new systems. Hurrah for technology Smile

    Here are a few shots of the carving process. It is basically a central European bow, but I just love the bevels of some other styles, and since this is my party, I can cry or design it any way I want Wink. At this point, I am using cabinet scrapers quite a bit, and I think that this will carry through to the final finishing. I don't have any shark skin laying around, sandpaper as we know it didn't exist in Medieval Europe, and so I will make sure only to use scrapers for the final finish to this tiller.

    I have a ways to go, as you can see, but it is a nice way to spend New Years Eve by my workbench. Later, I will take a break for standard debauchery, but here it is. Happy New Year everyone!

    Dane


    Last edited by stoneagebowyer on Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:16 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : double pictures)
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    Post by Michael Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:32 am

    Dane: I never had a talent like what you just showed the guild. Just curious is your final finish product will it be using bow irons or will the prod be lashed on. Any indea what the finish draw wt. will be? Do you have a prod maker already on board? The project looks good keep up the fabulous work.
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    Post by stoneagebowyer Sun Jan 01, 2012 5:43 am

    Michael, thanks for the kind words. They go together very welll with morning coffee.

    The prod is a 195 lb. prod from Alchem which I have had for about a year now (I opted for lighter 100 lb. bow for my first earlier project). It will be bound in rather than with the use of irons (yet to bore in the binding hole). Hopefully, the style for the tilller is not too radical or unpleasing, with perhaps some bevels not found in this regional style. I received my bone scales the other day, and the table of this weapon will be made using that material. Finally, thanks to help from Mac and 8 Fingers, I will be binding the stirrup on using leather woven in a basketweave pattern, a feature I find really beautiful.

    Dane
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    Post by Michael Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:46 am

    Dane: I have the almost exact one from Alchem (prod).Geezer built that one for me a couple of years ago. Also mine is a Central European type. My length is about 32" made from Walnut. Somewhere on here Lightly put in an entire photo out lay of the build I Believe you google the flicker photo web site. Matter-of-fact it's under your German crossbow thread. At present I'm working with a couple of guys who are going (hopefully) come on board and construct a late style German crossbow using a 350kg. prod. Ever since I been a kid and seen that TV. William Tell program I've Hooked on crossbows. The old stuff. Mike
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    Post by stoneagebowyer Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:14 am

    Central European Crossbow, just starting 0102

    Central European Crossbow, just starting 0112-1



    I will check on those photos, if I haven't seen them already.

    Here are a few more shots. The entire tiller is closer now, and the camera is an amazing tool to identify issues and spot areas the naked eye seems to miss.
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    Post by Ivo Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:27 pm

    Another one of stoneagebowyer's signature buildalongs. Very Happy

    Very nice and clean build as always, thanks for sharing with us the wood chips...reading this makes a good part of my healthy breakfast. tongue

    You're getting better and better at this stuff at some serious speeds man and it seems everything you try works out just fine! Very Happy

    Good luck!

    Ivo
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    Post by stoneagebowyer Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:33 am

    Thanks Ivo. One of the biggest challenges if finding the time to get into the shop. The S.O. (wife) sometimes views regular life as more important than the good stuff. But once a project gets to a certain point, it seems to take on a velocity of it's own, as this project has. And dont forget, you dont get to see the failures and mistakes I make all the time, too. Smile
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    Post by stoneagebowyer Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:46 pm

    Central European Crossbow, just starting 0192Central European Crossbow, just starting 0172Central European Crossbow, just starting 0092Central European Crossbow, just starting 0052Central European Crossbow, just starting 0032Central European Crossbow, just starting 0022





    Another exciting expisode!

    For those reading this thread, thanks. For those reading this thread and saying yuck, thanks for not saying anything. Smile

    Here are a few more photos. The tiller is much closer now, and less lopsided. The binding hole is almost bored all the way though, and I will finish that next time. My drilling setup would give a real machinist the fits no doubt. You may notice the nose of this tiller is a bit long, but I thought it would be nice looking design-wise. The "muzzle"end of the tiller is also cut to its basic length, and next step there is to make the prod socket.

    And so it goes. This project had been a lot of fun thus far, and I expect it will continue to be fun.
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    Post by Ivo Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:25 am

    stoneagebowyer wrote:Thanks Ivo. One of the biggest challenges if finding the time to get into the shop. The S.O. (wife) sometimes views regular life as more important than the good stuff. But once a project gets to a certain point, it seems to take on a velocity of it's own, as this project has....Smile

    *Velocity*...haha, I like that! Very Happy

    Looks great, and the curl is really starting to show! I can tell this is going to be a pride and joy.

    Again, Best of Luck! Very Happy

    PS:

    stoneagebowyer wrote:And dont forget, you dont get to see the failures and mistakes I make all the time, too. Smile

    Haha! Laughing So you are a member too, huh? scratch

    Why..My favorite club - "Staying out of trouble, or just not getting caught?" Laughing Laughing Laughing
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    Post by stoneagebowyer Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:22 am

    Yes, I am a member, perhaps a charter member. Remind me to tell you about the time I had a book of paper matches and a full can of gasoline sometime.

    I didn't expect any curl, so that is just a little added something from the crossbow gods.

    Dane
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    Post by stoneagebowyer Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:08 am

    Central European Crossbow, just starting 0152Central European Crossbow, just starting 0122Central European Crossbow, just starting 0112-2Central European Crossbow, just starting 0052-1Central European Crossbow, just starting 0042Central European Crossbow, just starting 0032-1Central European Crossbow, just starting 0022-1







    Last night, I did some work on the quarrel rest, as well as layed out the location of the prod socket. Working with bone is not my favorite activity, but it seemed to go along nicely. I still have a lot of work to do to the dovetail slot the rest will slide in and out of, and I need to get this step done so I can begin thinking of fitting the bone table surface pieces. This rest is kind of big and chuncky.

    Dane
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    Post by stoneagebowyer Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:24 pm

    Central European Crossbow, just starting 0302Central European Crossbow, just starting 0222



    I did a bit more work today. Basically, I made the prod socket, the binding block, and finished the dovetail groove for the quarrel rest. i am NOT happy with that part, and am wondering how to fix the issues I have created. More on that soon. Here are some pics.

    Dane
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    Post by stoneagebowyer Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:18 am

    Central European Crossbow, just starting Table0042Central European Crossbow, just starting Table0052



    A few more shots. I'm beginning to lay out the bone scales that will cover the table. I've only rough trimmed them thus far.

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    Post by Ivo Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:23 pm

    Everything is looking great. And the complex stuff is starting to set in, doing a great job there too! Smile

    I did a bit more work today. Basically, I made the prod socket, the
    binding block, and finished the dovetail groove for the quarrel rest. i
    am NOT happy with that part, and am wondering how to fix the issues I
    have created. More on that soon. Here are some pics.

    Which part are you talking about not coming out as expected? Is it the dove tail for the bolt rest insert?

    It seems to be very similar to what firearm guys do to install front sights, by using a template/jig.



    I try to make/use as many jigs as I can when I do stuff(probably why it takes me so long to do a project), but that way you are guaranteed a good fit and repeatability of the process when the creativity bug bites again. Very Happy

    If it's not that part, then speak your mind and we'll brain storm it all together with the guys.

    Actually - "Not sharing the bitter bits" is my biggest mistake, I also make alot of mistakes and keep them to me' self, when really I probably would have created a base for many good contributions a lot more and a lot faster to the forum and my own progress by simply saying what is.

    As my good friend says - "Saying what is - without compromise." Central European Crossbow, just starting 84490

    Ivo

    PS:

    [Edit] I think I see now what you're talking about. The prod socket seems
    not deep enough, but you already cut the dovetail for the sight and
    making the socket deeper could run pretty close to the dovetail -
    weakening the stock in that area? [Edit]
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    Post by stoneagebowyer Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:16 pm

    Central European Crossbow, just starting Tickler0032Central European Crossbow, just starting Tickler0022-1Central European Crossbow, just starting Tickler0012



    Yeah, the dovetail for the quarrel rest. It is actually a matter of my being lazy and not going out and getting a decent triangular file, or not being able to find my old one. I will just pick up a new one this coming week. I have enough other things to do.

    Thanks though for the offer to troubleshoot the issue. Very cool of you.

    I dont think the intergity of the area will be impacted by deepening or widening the dovetail at all, so that is one less thing to worry about.

    A wise old man once said to me "repeatability is fine, young feller, but one of a kind is priceless." Smile

    Finally, a few photos as I start filing on the tickler to get it all nice and smooth and ready for bluing.
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    Post by stoneagebowyer Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:19 am

    Just as I expected. I picked up the correct file this morning, and the dovetail slot is in good shape. I am thinking of making the quarrel rest from some sort of pretty hardwood, maybe degame (lemonwood), osage, cherry, bacote or even lignum vitae. That wood worked fine in Merlin's staff, and maybe the magic can help me hit my targets Smile.
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    Post by stoneagebowyer Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:35 am

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    Here is the slot. Not perfect, but acceptible to me considering how I felt the other day. Dane
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