Medieval Crossbows: Photos, Drawings, Diagrams

First topic message reminder :

Good time of day!

I Want to present to you a few 16-th century crossbow photos, which adorns our forum as the first sample of medieval crossbows :flower: (It also adorns the desktop of my computer - is one of my favorite :queen: )

Sorry about the crossbow-gun theme...I just got tangled in the excitement a bit and can't stop. I mentioned once(well actually more than once ) that I want to build a hybrid crossbow gun one day and the fact that I don't have the experience or the machinery(not to mention time) to build something like this...The excitement only got bigger...that is my sickness :glol:

From examining the pictures I also agree that this weapon wasn't exactly comfortable. The foot stirup(foot loop) and the gun barrel are placed in such a way that the barrel would be in the way of your foot...the only way to cock this crossbow would probably be done in a very unnatural manner of placing the crossbow in reverse? What I mean is usually the trigger lever(bottom) is facing the shooter when the bow is spanned...but in this situation the nut(top) is facing the shooter and that what seems unnatural...unless of coarse this crossbow was spanned with some form of lever lever. Does this make sense?

Thanks for the info Mr SAM...The pictures are looking good and have a soft feel to them...restored perhaps?

Ivo wrote:
...
From examining the pictures I also agree that this weapon wasn't exactly comfortable. The foot stirup(foot loop) and the gun barrel are placed in such a way that the barrel would be in the way of your foot...the only way to cock this crossbow would probably be done in a very unnatural manner of placing the crossbow in reverse? What I mean is usually the trigger lever(bottom) is facing the shooter when the bow is spanned...but in this situation the nut(top) is facing the shooter and that what seems unnatural...unless of coarse this crossbow was spanned with some form of lever. Does this make sense?
...

It's not absolutely so... At spanning of bowstring with the kranequin, crossbow hold for a stock whith nut side to yourself. Thus the stirrup is used not traditionally, and is faster for an emphasis to the knee or to the earth.

It's well-known "Padre island bow", it is caught together with Spanish Galleon in the mid-seventies years of the 20st. Known enough fact, but more or less decent a photos are rarity. Here, perhaps, best that I could find:

http://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/coast/images/he4.html



Them there actually 3 pieces, are more exact parts from 3 pieces. Those summit crossbows, with whom Cortez conquered Mexico
During lifetime it looked here so:



And here are some pictures in the style of "Retro" (Pay attention to the smallest of them - the horseman option) :



And especially gratitude thanks to William Tell for His Maltese crossbows photos:

Hey guys: Geezer here. In the photo of the Padre Island relics on display (At Corpus-Christi, Tex museum of Science and History) The complete bow, bolts and gafas all came from my shop. A friend made the gafas, I did the rest. Geezer.
ps. Thanks to Wm. Tell for the pictures of the Maltese bows. Please note most of these bows are tapered from lock to head, and upper top of stock behind the lock is clearly gabled... higher in center, lower on edges. Incidentally, this feature is missing on the Padre Island bows. The relic in the best condition was not very well made... the lock is a bit off center, rivets are put in crooked, and based on radiographs, the nose-ring was originally put in crooked and later corrected. It looks like the bow might have come from a bin marked 'factory seconds', still its interesting to see what was acceptable for general munitions grade equipment. Geezer.

Hi there,
Thanks for posting all the beautiful photos guys.
I think the tapering of the prods in both depth and thickness is very elegant.
I am I right in saying that no one offers this style commercially at the moment?
I think Geezer wisely mentioned about how CAD equipped companies will do just about anything nowadays,
but is that the only option?
Could a blacksmith work with high carbon spring steel? Were the originals HCSS?

Thanks
Balbi

balbi wrote:...I am I right in saying that no one offers this style commercially at the moment?
I think Geezer wisely mentioned about how CAD equipped companies will do just about anything nowadays,
but is that the only option?
Could a blacksmith work with high carbon spring steel? Were the originals HCSS?...Balbi

Hello Balbi,

I don't mean to be rude, but please keep construction and material availability questions/discussions in the appropriate sections of the forum.

Thank you,

Ivo

An interesting photo I found when looking through online Britannica Encyclopedia...link


What caught my attention was the way the rope of the windlass spanning device was crossing along the the stock...was that a normal and functional variation of rope placement or is it just another example of museum workers/photographers imagination?

Ivo wrote:An interesting photo I found when looking through online Britannica Encyclopedia...

.............

What caught my attention was the way the rope of the windlass spanning device was crossing along the the stock...was that a normal and functional variation of rope placement or is it just another example of museum workers/photographers imagination?

Ivo, you're right!
This crossbow is very interesting in itself, but it is an example of absolute ignorance nagyadnym West Point Museum (United States Military Academy) staff. They believe that a French military crossbow 14th century. They are wrong. In fact, it is target Flemish crossbow, which dates from no earlier than the beginning of 17th century. With such incompetence is not surprising that the ropes are reversed and crossing along the the stock
"...just another example of museum workers/photographers imagination!..."
The сords of the windlass spanning device should look like this:


P.S. This type crossbow replica of my production you can see here:

Hi there guys. Here you might find these close ups of interest. original i6th century crossbows.

Geezer here, with a comment on museum errors. Though the great museums usually have
'experts' on staff, it's hard for any curator to know everything. As crossbows go, I think most of those 'experts' have a copy of Payne-Gallwey's "The Crossbow"' on hand, and that's the limit of their knowledge. I have seen roller-nuts put in backwards in a couple of very big-name european museums... places where Somebody Oughta Know Better. Given that they can make such obvious mistakes, it's no surprise that they sometimes get date and provenance wrong.
Sadly, these mistakes tend to propogate. A friend saw a crossbow in a small regional museum with the roller-nut in backwards. When he pointed it out to the curator, the guy referenced a crossbow in a Big Important Museum that had theirs in the same way. I've seen that one...it's wrong too. Sigh... Geezer.

Geezer wrote:...
I have seen roller-nuts put in backwards in a couple of very big-name european museums... places where Somebody Oughta Know Better. Given that they can make such obvious mistakes, it's no surprise that they sometimes get date and provenance wrong.
Sadly, these mistakes tend to propogate. A friend saw a crossbow in a small regional museum with the roller-nut in backwards. When he pointed it out to the curator, the guy referenced a crossbow in a Big Important Museum that had theirs in the same way. I've seen that one...it's wrong too. Sigh... Geezer.

You're right, Geezer. Here's one of the crossbow from the Paris Army Museum collection:
Whether it is necessary to be surprised that such error is duplicated...
From above on the Photo the Monument to Wilhelm Tell Altdorf, Switzerland. The sculptor was drunk,I believe.

William Tell wrote:... Here you might find these close ups of interest. original i6th century crossbows...

Very interesting, Will! And Is it possible to see the same fragments with decorative inlay and bolts grooves?

Ha Ha ha !! lol. !! I'll be damned! Thanks for pointing out to me the picture of William tell. Yea goes to show that most of these sculptors and curators don't know jack s--t about what they are doing Mr.SAM.
I can assure you however that the curator of the Museum of where these crossbows are is quite learned and he owns 2 crossbows himself. So he ain't gonna stick no Nut the wrong way.
Here you are Mr.SAM all the pics I had of these crossbows. Will post more close-ups soon. Thanks for making me laugh.

Got you too with that backwards nut nonsense huh?

When I first saw it I was under impression that the nut simply spun through to a point that the back of the nut popped up above it's seat, but then there would be no groove in for the arrow there ....so I've thought a bit harder(I must have been drunk too)...:banme: >>>I imagined... well they must have made the nut double sided in case the teeth failed in the middle of the battle, so they would simply field strip the crossbow, flip the nut and be on their way spitting death left and right...turned out I simply underestimated our museum workers and sculptors.

PS: Don't ask me what I was thinking as I don't recognize myself when I'm thinking like that and blame everything on Mr.Hide.

Keeping the topic alive...mmmkay?

Posting this picture in response to one of our members requests.

William Tell;


I am very interested in these Maltese bows, I love them and would like to start moving towards making some as closely as possible to these, they are so elegant.. one thing I REALLY need that I cannot find, is good closeups of the noses of the bows, to see the shape that they are, and from the very front, to see how keeled, or NOT keeled, they are.. Have you any like that?

And, do you know the origin or meaning of any of the inlays on the bows? By this I mean, are they sigils, or marks of a household, or religious meanings, or pure decoration?

I can point to some specific images for you. And would LOVE to see if there are good closeups that are very clear...

Any help appreciated!

Many thanks;

Lightly

Got a little bit of eye candy for you guys...probably the most massive crossbow I've seen so far.



I can't remember what museum it's in, have it saved in the bookmarks somewhere...

Anyway, if anyone knows anything about these huge bows, what they were used for and how...it would definitely be great to hear.

Thanks and You're Welcome

Ivo

The huge bow in the middle? Germans call it a Ganz-Rustung, which literally translated means 'entire' or 'whole'' spring. The field-bows flanking it are 'halb-rustung'
The ganz-rustung is a wall-bow or siege-bow. They're stored in a castle armory, for defense of castle, city, or other permanent works.
Siege bows might be taken into the field for attacks on somebody else's permanent works, but they're really too large for maneuver warfare or hunting. Maybe Edward the Black Prince could have had a few siege-bows in his defensive lines at Crecy.
Geezer.

Geezer,

Would these bows be for firing particularly heavy projectiles, or simply improving the range of ordinary projectiles? The picture isn't entirely clear, but it looks like the quarrel rest near where the prod is mounted would require a projectile that stretched from the nut to the rest, which is quite a bit longer than any bolts I have seen.

What a monster of a bow!

most of the medieval bolts I have seen are about 15 inches long, but of course Bolts must be long enough to stretch from lock to rest. Of course a fully-grooved bow would handle bolts of any size, but it's possible to have bolts that are just too light-weight. In which case, the bowstring, prod, and mounting must absorb energy that doesn't go into the bolt.
The Kunsthistorisches museum in Vienna (Austria) has some bolts that are long enough for their siege-bow. Probably about two feet in length. Interestingly enough, some of their bolts have red and blue bands (cresting) around the shaft, just ahead of the feathers, much like modern target arrows.
Geezer

Theese enourmous bows are called "Wall-Armbrust" and are siege-weapons in castles for natural reasons.
They can be even larger.
Geezer@ a "Ganz Rüstung" is a heavy crossbow with a steelprod-thickness over 15 mm in the middle. Under 15 mm is called Halb Rustüng. There is also "Viertel Rüstung" wich is small crossbows ( I don´t remember the diameter).

Geezer here: I'm not sure if this is the best place to post this, but I have just ordered Holger Richter's monograph (@ 100 pages) on Dresden armbrustmachers (crossbow makers) It should be here in a week or two, and I hope to comment on it, once I've had a chance to digest whatever's there. If it's anything like the Hornbogen book, it should be a gold-mine.

http://larsdatter.com/archers.htm Contains a bunch of medieval paintings with crossbows and archery supplies.

Malta palace armoury crossbow.
For the one interested some very detailed pictures for replica.Those are beautiful and certainly very efficient. The pictures come from an exhibit we had in the Invalid museum (war museum) in Paris